Michael Caputo >> What do you need to know?-
A president's trip here highlighted social security reform.-
So what would private personal accounts from Social Security
mean for you? Are we ready to be investors?-

Julie Philipp>> And we continue our series called the Economics of Green.This time we look at recycling at its grandest scale.Remanufacturing of products.Can it mesh with business? We'll have a report.-

Caputo>> Stay right here for "what you need to know."

Michael Caputo
(MC)>>Thanks for joining us. I'm Michael Caputo. George Bush came to our neck of the woods last week visiting a school in Greece.Now it doesn't happen here every day -- a visit by the leader of the free world. But the message he gave was far from new. In day 82 of what had been a 60-day tour on Social Security reform, bush once again called for an overhaul of the Social
Security program. And he pushed for what he called voluntary personal accounts - basically letting you take part in what would go into Social Security and investing it on your own. Now during last week's speech before a largely friendly crowd at the school, Bush said when it comes to investing, Americans are more savvy and the government should allow more people to be investors.

George Bush in Greece (TAPED)>> Thank you. The other day I was in an automobile manufacturing plant in Mississippi. I'm sitting with a lot of line workers. I said how many of you have 401-k's?-
A lot of hands went up. A lot of people from different walks of life, different backgrounds. Now understand what it means to watch your money grow. This isn't a new concept in American society.This is something that's taken place throughout all of society. And I think it makes sense to understand the investor class doesn't belong to a privileged few but the investor class ought to be extended to everybody that lives in America if that's what you want.

(MC)>> President Bush in Greece. So if reform makes investors out of more people, are we really
ready? To answer that we have with us Jeff Kolcon. He is an investor. He teaches economics at Medaille College and he has given investment advice on local television and radio.

(MC)>> That is the message, the president says we're ready to invest. But right off the bat, it would seem to me you have to keep your eye on this far more than you do with your 401-ks that true?

Jeff Kolcon>> Of course. The issue is how long did it take for the 401-k itself to become prevalent? This was not something that people bought into. In fact when the 401-k first became popular, I shouldn't say became popular, less than half the people that were allowed to use 401-k's bought into the process.

(MC) >> Look, I can tell you that there is plenty of people I'm sure
throwing money in there and not paying a wit of attention to
their 401-k plan, to any of this. So where does that leave us with the Social Security plan?

Jeff Kolcon>>Time. Time. Good idea or bad? If we're going to go forward, we have to go through a process of getting used to the idea, educating about the idea.-
And actually rolling this process out with a little bit more time. I don't think is something we can do overnight. I think it's going to take a very, very long period of time for this to actually become something that's viable.

(MC)>> You would suggest doing parts of this sooner than the
personal or private accounts?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> Well, I think we all buy into the idea of the 401-k. I think -- I'm setting aside the politics. If this moves forward, this has to be rolled out in a similar
situation where you have to educate. Just like a corporation has to educate on a 401-k, the merits
of why you do it and how to do it. We also have to give people time to assimilate to this
program.

(MC)>> Tell me, from an investors point of view, what are the
outstanding questions with what we've been hearing as far as
this proposal? What are the things that have not been answered?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> I think that some of the things that have been talked about,
depends on which side of the coin you're on, investors really
look at is can I really do this? And will the amount of money that goes into this be relevant? Because we're talking about a small percentage of your social
security dollar going into this program. Does that make a relevant difference over the period of time?-
Let's say, for example, they say 5% of the money you put into
social security actually goes into a plan that can grow for
you, is that an amount that actually makes a viable amount of
money for you at the end? Do you have money in that pocket at the end of the 20- or
30-year period you plan to put into it? The only thing you can do is in the investment world is do
hypothetical calls. Can you put hypothetical calls together. The problem with that is that statistics can be skewed. Depends on if you're using 4%, 5%, 6% annual raste growth or
10%. I can make a dollar a year look great if you allow me, to you
know, skew the statistics a little bit.

(MC)>> Do we know whether or not we can tap the accounts for
emergencies or whether spouses will have a claim ? Is there an answer to any degree?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> I don't think everything's been answered. I think we're sticking to talking points.-
The White House is really trying to stick with the main theme. However, one thing that is interesting they talked about is the fact that thouses will be able to roll plans over from a death
of a spouse. In other words, I have a spouse, my spouse's plan is larger
than mine. She passes on. And hers is bigger than mine.
I can assume hers versus mine in retirement.

(MC)>> That is a big thing.-

Jeff Kolcon>>>> I think that is a very, very big thing.

(MC)>> You know, during a speech President Bush repeatedly said
that there is a better rate of return under this personal or
private account approach.Take a listen to what he had to say.

BUSH IN GREECE (TAPED)>> For example, if you're making $8 an hour and you put your money
in your -- and you're allowed to set aside a third of your
payroll taxes, $8 an hour over your life and able to set aside
a third of your money in a personal savings account and earn
the 4.5%, rate of return which is definitely achievable.
I think when you look at the history of conservative
investments -- by the time it comes to you to reach retirement
age, you'll have earned $100,000. In your nest egg.-
That will be a part of your social security retirement system.-
So you'll get benefits out of the current system, out of the
system that is reformed plus you got $100,000 that you can call
your own.

(MC)>> Ok. So any problem with that? It sounds good.-

Jeff Kolcon>>>> $100,000 the same as $100,000, I like how he made that
speech. There $100,000 is relative. We're talking about what amount of time and what expenses are
coming out of that 4.5% that he quoted? Now they're talking about .3% being assumed by the government to take care of the expenses on the back end of this program.-
That's awful cheap.
That is awful cheap.
If the government can do it better than Wall Street, and what
they're saying is the government can do it better than wall
street because .3% to administer a whole plan like that
including the mutual fund side of it and everything else is
extremely cheap.-
I honestly don't think at this point those numbers are good
numbers to be working with.-
I like the plan.-
I like the idea and the concept.-
But for the government to say kit do it for .3%, I'm willing to
challenge that number.

(MC) >> Someone like you if, this comes to pass, you're going to be
asked whether or not is there any risk?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> Oh, absolutely. There is always risk.-
There is risk in it. Remember, we all assume risk already when we work a job and
have a 401-k or 403-b if we're a teacher.-
There is a reward that comes if there is a risk.-
The reward is a little enhanced payout at the end.-
And I do believe this plan could work and see enhanced payouts
for people. But you do have to assume a little risk.-
Time dulls the risk. In other words, the longer you're in a plan like, this the more
the chance of the plan is going to work.

(MC)>> Should the government get involved to the degree of maybe
guaranteeing or having a minimum, like if it drops -- the
market goes crazy and it drops, should the government guarantee
some of this money?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> I do believe in some of the G.O.P. and the White House
literature that's on the web sites.There are some plampings in the platform that do say that that
is in place. Now I -- we still haven't seen a detailed plan to the point
where we can actually break it down and 15 this is exactly what
is going to happen.I believe they are putting provisions in like. This right now the way this is set up, it's optional. Just like your 401-k is optional.
You don't have to participate if you're on a job or 40 -b, but
it's an option for you.
The way they're presenting this is it's an option.

(MC)>> Now there were times when the president compared these
voluntary accounts to what senators enjoy.I think they're called thrift savings plans.-
Again, here's the president talking about thrift savings
plans.

BUSH IN GREECE (ON TAPE)>> So my attitude about this issue on thrift savings plans,
when I speak to members of the congress, is pretty simple.-
If the idea of taking some of your own money and setting it
aside in a mix of stocks and bonds are good for you, Mr.
Senator, it is good enough for workers all across the United
States of America.

(MC)>> So what do you think? Is it?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> I think it's rhetoric along the lines of everything else.-
The 401-k plans, everybody has that already.-
And it is rhetoric with the senators.-
I think that's a way to try to sell the plan.-
I don't see any relevance on that versus anything else we
talked b it's another way of trying to say you as the working
class have the same abilities as the rich Senator.-

(MC)>> Let's say again this comes to pass. And again I'm coming to you for advice.-
Is there any scenario you could concoct that you would say don't invest? Keep it in there? Don't take this money out. What might that be?

Jeff Kolcon>>>> Some of the possibilities would be you're going to have a
job for a very short period of time.In other words, you're going into the work force for a couple
of years and you're not planning on being in work force for a
long time that could be a possible scenario.But really if this comes to fruition, just like a 401-k plan,
there is very little that should keep you participating in this
except for a short period of time.The risk really would be in the short period of time.

-(MC)>> Just a few seconds left.Do you think your business is going to boom if this thing comes
to pass?-

Jeff Kolcon>>>> Honestly, there is no correlation between the two. Really, it is set up as a government program. As a financial advisor, we're dealing with after tax money or
ira plans. I don't think it will.-

(MC)>> Thank you very much for shedding light on this. We appreciate it.-
We need to know what you think. We have two easy ways to do this.-
You can e-mail us at needtoknow@wxxi.org or call us at 258-0250.

(MC)>> What are local companies doing that is good for the
environment? "Need to Know's" Julie Philipp has part two of her series, the
Economics of Green.

Julie Philipp>> Homeowners recycle milk cartons. A few stopped putting pesticides on the lawn and drive a hybrid vehicle. These practices are called green practices. They are catching on in the corporate world in some rather innovative ways.

Lorna Midgelow>> I believe strongly that companies are part of the whole
solution to the environment problems.Patricia Calkins>> Other companies are starting to realize that it makes sense
to do things in a more environmentally responsible manner.-Julie Philipp

(JP)>> They sound like they're on the same side. But only one of these women is an environmentalist. The other is a corporate vice president. Can't tell the difference? That's because more and more companies are becoming green. And one of the recognized leaders of the worldwide movement is Xerox.Patricia Calkins leads the global effort from her office in Webster
where the company's largest manufacturing, engineering and manufacturing complex is located.-

Patricia Calkins>> For Xerox, specifically, it's looking at pretty much
everything that you do and looking at it from the environmental
standpoint and how can you minimize the impact of the
environment.

(JP)>> She says the conventional wisdom, what's good for the planet
is not good for business, is dead wrong.

Patricia Calkins>> Xerox has actually proved just the opposite.-
That, in fact, there's win-win.-
You can be green and it's good for business.-
If you think about it, a lot of the nongreen stuff is waste or
pollution. What does that mean? That means inefficiency in your process. And if you remove those infishes, you're actually capturing resources that you would have lost otherwise.-
So for the most part, most of what we do, in fact is good for
the bottom line.

(JP)>> Case noint, this 58,000 square foot -- point, this 58,000
square foot remanufacturing center for choppiers and printers.Patricia Calkins>> Machines we had them on lease, we would get them back once
the lease was overment and they would go into storage and said,
ok, what do we do with these? And we thought, you know something? They're still useful.-
Maybe what we can do is recover the value from them and start
incorporating them into new products.-
They disassemble the machines, theyíll pull out these sorts of components like the power supply, the controller boards take off the panels.
Theyíll take these boards and retest them and make sure they meet the performance characteristics. And then theyíll assemble it back up into a machine and again do all the testing to make sure those machines meet the same performance characteristics as one made from new parts.

(JP)>> By reusing parts and its manufacturing process, Xerox is
keeping thousands of tons of equipment out of land fills.-
And saving money by not ordering new parts.

Patricia Calkins>> We actually rely on getting the old machines back.-
If we don't get enough, yeah, E-Bay.

(JP)>> This is just within link in a chain of green business
practices at Xerox. Starting with putting environmental constraints on the
company's raw suppliers and ending with more and more energy
efficient products for customers.

Lorna Midgelow, the program director for Rochester Green Business Network is tracking efforts like these in the Rochester area.

Lorna Midgelow>> It came through some of our members.-
We got together and they were saying to me well have we got
data base and business practices? I said, no, but that's a good idea.-
The case studies are going to go on a web site
So weíll have the case studies and then anyone who was involved in the project such as engineers, contractors, technical assistance providers, funding organizations. Theyíre going to be listed along with the case studies so it makes it easier for other companies who might be interested in those business practices to take them up.

(JP)>> The project funded by the E.P.A. and empire state
development should be on line by November.Michael Caputo

(MC)>> With us now to continue on the idea of remanufacturing is
Nabil Nasr, the director of R.I.T.'s Center for Integrated Manufacturing
Studies and founded the national Center for Remanufacturing and
Resource Recovery. Thank you very much for being with us. I'm going to ask a simple question, the biggest barrier --- I don't want used stuff.-

Nabil Nasr>> Absolutely.This is the one of the major barriers that we have to deal with
in this industry. The concept of using a used product that is something that we
have to overcome. The way around this I think is to get people to understand what
a remanufactured product is and give the consumers more
awareness on how the product is really made.-
Remanufactured product is a product that meets the same
performance specifications to meet the same reliability level
and also the standards of new product of today. The way we manufacturing or remanufacturing product is we take a product back from the field and disassemble it to the
component level and completely clean and inspect and restore
components and replace components that are actually no longer
valid to be used. And then make up a product that meet the same specifications as
new.-

(MC)>> The other thing I think would be hard to gauge or whether
you could convince the public to even give you the stuff back,
give that company back that equipment. I would think that's another hurdle there.Right?

Nabil Nasr>> Exactly. It's a big issue for many products, many consumer products.-
However, we have product like the single use cameras. There is a mechanism if place for people to actually develop the film. They have to take it to a photo shop. You have to take it to a place that actually develops their picture. So in a way you have a mechanism to get cameras back.-
That's what Eastman Kodak has. With Xerox, for example, we have
copiers that you have service agreements.You know exactly, you know, the customers.-
You know their address and they have a way to -- they buy the
supplies from you as well.-

(MC)>> So is this stuff cheaper?

Nabil Nasr>> It actually is cheaper.But the fact that we're capitalizing on resources that we
already spent to make the product and the value added that we
put in the product once we go through the remanufacture process
allow us to have a product that many time is half the cost of
new.

(MC)>> Give me some other barriers with the idea of
remanufacturing.What other blockades are out there?-

Nabil Nasr>> There are a variety of barriers that I think face
remanufacturing product in the marketplace.-
You mentioned the consumer perception and consume area wareness
of the value of the product that is definitely one.-
You also mentioned the collection system, the infrastructure to
get this product back.-
The scanners and copiers there is an easier way to get
through than many other consumer products.-
So the infrastructure to lect them is another barrier.-
The other factor is I think the indication of companies,
companies are unaware of the -- how over the processes of
technologies and many times you'll select interest and actually
starting three million manufactured products.

(MC) >> Am I wrong in the cartridge print industry, I don't know if
that plays into it at all. But there is a clash going on right now between those who
produce the new and places -- can you correct me if I'm wrong
here, but there are place that's want to reuse this material
but are having a hard time. The companies that produces new are making it harder.-

Nabil Nasr>> Absolutely.And some of the new cartridges have a chip which basically at
the end of life of a cartridge... the cartridge would, if you
remanufacturing and put new corners there and get it back in
the new condition, it would not work because the chip will not
work again in the printer. The cartridge is a wonderful case.-
In just a few short years ago we had a case where we started
using a printers, P.C.'s became common. And in many house holds.-
And with all this numbers, we have, you know, printers that go
with P.C.'s that you end up with a lot of cartridges.-
Used nationwide. And a lot of these were creating a really more of a waste
problem for us. And because of remanufacturing now, we do have a process that
goes back, create some economic value to create enemployment
from. This and actually do the right thing environmentally.-
The key, the challenge for the profit -- who makes a profit?-
So the challenge here is between the O.E.M.'s, orginal
equipment manufacturing and the third party company.

(MC)>> So are there intellectual property problems? Antitrust problems?-
Do those come into play too?

Nabil Nasr>> Yeah, in some cases. You would see some intellectual properties because the -- if
the company's holding patent on many components, they don't
like you to modify them. And that's one of the issues we deal with in the manufacturing
as well.

(MC)>> Please tell me whether you think government should be
telling business, should be mandating business to
remanufacture.Because as soon as you start talking mandates, that, I think,
to most businesses is there is another cost coming down the
pike.They're forcing us.

Nabil Nasr>> Well, I think the governments here or overseas have to deal
with the issues that -- the challenges that we're facing in
manufacturing products.Our system simply is unsustainable.-
We use half of the materials that we use in industry or in
manufacturing products is unrenewable.-
We have to deal with the issue and the balance.-
And government's role is really to guide this process and guide
the practices.

(MC)>> Should they force it?

Nabil Nasr>> In Europe they are. In Europe, there are directives that actually dealing, for
example, the first one is called dealing with electronic products. And they're saying for companies that made a product, they have an end of life, they have to take it back. It is already happening in the automotive side in Europe.And there are form of this coming in the U.S. as well.

(MC)>> I can already see people saying, boy, great, another mandate
then from government on business. And especially in a place like upstate New York where, you
know, they're a wash in man tates and extra costs. I mean isn't that a problem?

Nabil Nasr>> I think, you know, the -- historically, the Europeans have
gone the directive approach where the government has taken
directive and asked industry to deal with this. And find a way to make the things happen.-
If the U.S. we have a approach where the E.P.A. has actually
looked to industry to work with them and address some of the
challenges. So we have extended consumer responsibility.I'm sorry, extended producer responsibility.And that's really dealing with the E.P.A. working industry
together to find ways to deal with this rather than mandating,
you know, coming up with laws.

(MC)>> So we're not quite there yet.We're not quite at the point where we say let's put down the
hammer here?

Nabil Nasr>> Yes, we have a way to go.

-(MC)>> Mr. Nasr thank you very much for being here.
Let's move on now to the business section with the Democrat and
Chronicle.

Julie Philipp (JP)>> Here with us is the business editor for the Democrat &
Chronicle, Ellen Rosen.Let's start off with the chief architect for Renaissance Square, Moshi Safdi.-
He was in town this week.

Ellen Rosen (ER)>> Yes. He spoke on Thursday before a group at the Rochester downtown
Development Corporation

(JP)>> A big crowd?-

(ER)>> Very big crowd.One of the biggest crowd they had for their luncheons.-
People got to hear what is planned for Renaissance square.-
While they really didn't hear any specific plans for that
project, they got to see a lot of the other work. He took a few questions.-
And they also got to find out there is going to be public
forums where the public can go to workshops and talk about what
they'd like to see.

(JP)>> It sounded like he hinted that there could be tension
between what we want and what we can pay for.

(ER)>> He did mention whether that was the biggest part of the
challenge.He also made a comment about the bus station when he hears
bit. He says if anybody uses the term underground bus garage to talk
about it when it's done, then he will have failed.

(JP)>> Sounds like an artist. Let's talk about Monroe muffler break that is quite a
company there.

(ER)>> Yes, really.-
It's one of the companies that is local. It is also national. They have 1200 employees around the country. 300 of them here.

(JP)>> Growing by leaps and bounds.-

(ER)>> Yes, they had another record year of sales.-
Bascially it has to do with acquisitions they've made in the
last year or.So they've been opening new stores. B.J. centers, tire centers, things like that. That has proved to be a successful strategy for them.

(JP)>> Apparently they have some kind of proprietary computer
system that helps them narrow down where the best markets and
the best sites are. Any inkling as to what that's about?

(ER)>> They've been very strategic in where they open.
They figured B.J.'s was a good place.
So they figured that was good. They also acquired a couple chains in the last few years.-
And its acquisitions are starting to pay off.

(JP)>> They're start wgget fact that we drive more.-
We have more cars out there.
And these are things that are not covered by warranty.-

(ER)>> And we want to service our cars longer.-
People would drive cars two, three, years get a new one.-
People are driving cars for 10, 12 years.-
You invest the money, keep the tire and mufflers up, you can
keep the road orn the car longer.

(JP)>> They say things won't slow down either.-

(ER)>> Yes.-

(JP)>> There is a little slowing down at Eastman Kodak this week with their new digital wireless camera.

(ER)>> The Easy Share 1 which kodak if you remember unveiled the
consumer electronics show in Las Vegas in January. Which is really a unique camera. It's the first one that will allow you to transmit pictures via wireless network so you don't have to hook up with a
computer or picture kiosk or anything. They said they want to get that out on the shelves by June.-
Now they're saying that's going to come in October.

(JP)>>What does that mean?

(ER)>>It's hard to say. Basically, this is a very unique product.-
It won in best of shows. It has a huge L.C.D. screen.

(JP)>>> And this fast paced digital world, there is somebody biting
at their heels. Is this going to be a problem?

(ER)>> I'm sure they're worried about that one of the things kodak
needs to work on is commercializing the digital products.The other thing to remember is the biggest market for digital cameras is in the last quarter every the year. They'll be in time for that market.

(JP)>> They said October, correct?

(ER)>>Now they're looking at October versus June.-

(JP)>>Have they given any details as to what the problem is?-

(ER)>> They haven't said. They need more time to bring it to market.
A lot of the technologies in there are brand new. Pretty much everything about it is new.-
I'm sure they want to make sure they are right. This is an extremely popular line of cameras for kodak. This is building on that popular line. They're building on the brand name. They don't want to release anything necessity they know it's going to work for everybody.-

(JP)>> Ok. Thanks so much.-

(ER)>> Thanks, Julie.

(JP)>> Earlier "need to know" programs can be seen if you have time
warner's cable program on demand service. Then find wxxi news and there you'll find a menu of recent
"need to know" program.-

Michael Caputo>> And that's report. We'll wrap up our series on the Economics of green by looking at businesses that's are working in green buildings.-
We'll see you then.-
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