Michael Caputo>> WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW?
HOW ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE FOURTH ESTATE? THE PRESS IS UNDER SCRUTINY AND
THE MEDIA IS CHANGING AT A DIZZYING PACE.
Julie Philipp>> WE WILL HAVE A REPORT ON THE
ETHICS OF STEM CELL RESEARCH AND
WHETHER UPSTATE NEW YORK CAN OR
SHOULD GET INTO THE BUSINESS.
Michael Caputo>> WE WILL HAVE A REPORT ON
BUSINESS. STAY HERE FOR "NEED TO KNOW."
Voiceover>> ROCHESTER'S NEWS MAGAZINE
SINCE 1997, THIS IS "NEED TO
KNOW."
Michael Caputo (MC)>> THANKS FOR JOINING US.
I'M MICHAEL CAPUTO.
AT A SEMINAR ON MEDIA THIS WEEK,
LOUISE SLAUGHTER PUT IT
SUCCINCTLY, GOVERNMENT IS NOT A
SPECTATOR SPORT, SHE SAID,
VOTERS MUST PARTICIPATE.
THEY NEED INFORMATION, THE
PROVINCE OF THE FOURTH ESTATE.
THE PRESS IS FACING GREATER
CRITICISM AND SCRUTINY.
"NEED TO KNOW" SAT IN ON A
DISCUSSION AT THE ROCHESTER
INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY TITLED
"IS THERE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION
IN AMERICA?"
BUT THE DISCUSSION LOOKED AT THE
EFFECT OF MASSIVE MEDIA
CONSOLIDATION, THE RISE OF POINT
OF VIEW INFORMATION AND THE
QUALITY OF JOURNALISM.
THE PANEL INCLUDED A NUMBER OF
LEADING FIGURES IN PRINT AND
BROADCAST JOURNALISM, INCLUDING
TOM CURLEY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE
ASSOCIATED PRESS.
CURLEY TALKED ABOUT THE FACTS OF
LIFE FOR NEWS GATHERERS IN A
POST-9/11 WORLD.
Tom Curley (ON VIDEOTAPE)>> THE NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS
CLASSIFIED IN 2004 EXCEEDED ALL
THE DOCUMENTS CLASSIFIED IN
AMERICAN HISTORY.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING
IN GUANTANOMO BAY WHERE THERE
HAS BEEN NO ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE
HELD THERE, EVEN AFTER THE
SUPREME COURT RULED THAT THEY
DESERVED HEARINGS, WE HAVE FILED
SUIT TO TRY TO GET ACCESS TO
THE INFORMATION.
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
DIRECTED ITS EMPLOYEES TO COMPLY
WITH THAT REQUEST, BUT TO TAKE
THEIR TIME, IN EFFECT, AND DO
THEIR DAY JOB FIRST, SO AFTER
EIGHT MONTHS, WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN
ANY INFORMATION BECAUSE THEY
HAVE BEEN DOING THEIR DAY JOB
AND NOT MAKING AVAILABLE THOSE
RECORDS, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE
GREAT SWEEP OF WHAT'S TAKING
PLACE, THE ASHCROFT RULING THAT
TURNS FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ON
ITS HEAD, WE'RE AT A DIFFERENT
POINT HERE.
Michael Caputo (MC)>> WITH US IN STUDIO IS ONE OF
THE PANEL PARTICIPANTS, BOB
FINNERTY, CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS
OFFICE FORER.I.T, BUT HE WAS
ALSO A METRO EDITOR AT THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE AND
ASSIGNMENT EDITOR AT OUR NEWS.
ALSO WITH US IS A MEADE YOR
EXPERT, TOM PROELT PROIETTI.
LET ME ASK YOU THE FIRST
QUESTION, TOM, LET'S PLAY OFF OF
TOM CURLEY'S COMMENTS.
OF COURSE IT IS A NEW WORLD.
TERRORISM IS A THREAT NOW.
WE'RE AT WAR, OF COURSE THE
GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO
BE MUCH MORE -- THEY HAVE TO
SCRUTINIZE THE INFORMATION THEY
GIVE OUT MUCH MORE.
WHY SHOULDN'T THERE BE A
CLAMPDOWN ON INFORMATION?
Tom Proietti>> THERE PROBABLY SHOULD BE, BUT
IF WE DO CLAMP DOWN TOO FAR,
THAT'S THE REAL KEY, IS WE ARE
NO LONGER THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA.
WE BECOME SOMETHING ELSE.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE
TERRORISTS WANTED TO HAVE
HAPPEN, AND WE'RE STARTING TO
RESPOND THAT WAY.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AT THIS
POINT WITH ITS BEHAVIOR IS
PRACTICING THE SINGLE MOST
DANGEROUS DANGEROUS ACT.
(MC)>> IF YOU ARE A MOTHER OR FATHER
OF SOMEBODY IN COMBAT, YOU DON'T
WANT -- YOU DON'T WANT TRUE
INFORMATION OUT.
YOU DON'T WANT THE REPORTERS TO BE ALL OVER THIS, AM I RIGHT? 4
Bob Finnerty>> LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS.
THERE HAS TO BE MIDDLE GROUND.
I THINK AMERICANS, RIGHT AFTER
9/11, FELT THAT THERE NEEDED TO
BE A DEFINITE CLAMDOWN, AND WHEN
THERE WERE POLLS TAKEN IN 2002,
YOU COULD SEE THAT.
NOW AMERICANS WANT TO MAKE SURE
THERE IS A BALANCE SO IT IS NOT
TOTALLY SECRETIVE.
IT WILL PLAY OUT OVER TIME T
WILL BE LIKE THE DRUG WAR.
THE WAR ON TERRORISM IS NOT
GOING TO END ANYTIME SOON.
THERE IS NO BORDERS.
THERE IS NO COUNTRIES.
IT'S ALWAYS TOUGH TO TELL WHO
THE ENEMY IS.
WE WILL SEE THIS PLAY OVER A
LONG TIME.
(MC)>> HAVE WE FOUND A BALANCE YET,
BOB?
Finnerty>> I DON'T THINK SO.
Proietti>>RIGHT NOW, THE CASUALTY HAS BEEN
THE TRUTH. YOU HEAR TOM CURLEY TALKING
ABOUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
TRUTH IS ANYMORE.
THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO SIT
ON SECRECY AND NOT RESPOND TO
REQUESTS FOR INFORMATIONING FOR
EIGHT MONTHS.
THAT'S JUST EIGHT MONTHS.
IT'S STILL THERE.
THEN THE TRUTH HAS BEEN LOST.
(MC)>> BOB, I WANTED TO ASK YOU, YOU
HAVE DONE A LOT OF LOCAL
JOURNALISM IN ROCHESTER FOR A
LONG TIME.
HOW DO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS RESPOND
TO REQUESTS UNDER THE FREEDOM OF
INFORMATION?
HOW DO THEY DO IT?
Finnerty>> IT'S INTERESTING.
THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE DID
THEIR PIECE A FEW WEEKS AGO ON
INFORMATION SUNDAY, AND THEY
TOOK A LOOK AT HOUZ THE LOCAL
TOWNS REACTED AND IT IS KIND OF
SURPRISING AT WHAT IS ONE OF THE
MORE PROGRESSIVE TOWNS IN THE
COUNTY, PERINTON, SCORED THE
WORST.
ONE OF THE REPORTERS WAS SIMPLY
ASKING FOR SALARY INFORMATION
FOR THE TOP FIVE OFFICIALS AND
IN THIS IS AN EASY REQUEST.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED VERY
SIMPLY, BUT A TOWN LIKE THAT, I
THINK IS ONE OF THE MORE
PROGRESSIVE TOWNS, FAILED ON A
SIMPLE REQUEST.
(MC)>> IS THIS ALWAYS THIS WAY?
Finnerty>> UP AND DOWN.
YOU JUST NEVER KNOW.
IT COULD BE A SMALLER TOWN OR A
BIGGER TOWN.
YOU JUST NEVER KNOW.
IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE DAY, AND
SOMETIMES I'M NOT SURE IF
THEY'RE TRYING TO HIDE
SOMETHING, OR IF THEY JUST DON'T
UNDERSTAND THE LAW OR THEY'RE
TOO LAZY.
Proietti >> IT MAY EVEN BE A GAME.
PART OF THE PROBLEM WE'RE
RUNNING INTO IS THAT MANY OF THE
NEW YOUNG JOURNALISTS TURN OVER
SO QUICKLY, AND THEY DON'T
REALLY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE
GAME.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE
GAME.
(MC)>> WELL, LET'S -- WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT GOVERNMENT, BUT
YOU BRING UP JOURNALISTS.
AT THE SEMINAR, BOB FREEMAN FROM
THE STATE COMMITTEE ON OPEN
GOVERNMENT TALKED ABOUT THE
PRACTITIONERS OF JOURNALISM AND
POINTED THE FINGER AT THEM.
Bob Freeman (ON VIDEOTAPE)>> WE ARE VICTIMS ALL OF BEING
MANAGED BY THE NEWS, AND FOR
BETTER OR FOR WORSE, REPORTERS
DON'T KNOW THEIR RIGHTS.
IT'S THE DIDDLY PRINCIPLE.
THEY DON'T KNOW DIDDLY.
AND IT IS THE TRUTH.
A LOT OF MY JOB INVOLVES
EDUCATING REPORT WHO CALL ME
FREQUENTLY AND I HAVE TO SAY
SORRY,.HE's NOT ASKING THE RIGHT
QUESTION.
THIS IS THE RIGHT QUESTION.
I THINK WE'D BE A LITTLE BIT
BETTER OFF IF THERE WERE BETTER
EDUCATION AMONG REPORTERS,
NUMBER ONE, AND NUMBER TWO, MORE
ANGER. WHAT DID THE NEWS MEDIA DO WHEN
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID YOU
CAN'T CAN'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION
ABOUT THE CASKETS THAT WE SAW AT
THE AIRPORT IN DELAWARE BECAUSE
OF PRIVACY CONCERNS.
LOOK AT THE CASKET, SHOW ME A
NAME ASSOCIATED WITH THE CASKET.
BEHALF WERE THEY SAY SMOKING IN
WASHINGTON TO SAY WE ARE
PROTECTING PRIVACY?
WHERE WAS THE OUTRAGE ON THE
PART OF THE MEDIA AND OTHERS?
I DIDN'T SEE IT.
(MC)>> TOM, IS THE PRESS LESS AGGRESSIVE?
Proietti>> YES.
(MC)>> WHY?
Proietti>> THE PARADIGM IS SHIFTED IT IS
EASIER TO COVER HOLLYWOOD AND
MICHAEL JACKSON T ATTRACTS
AUDIENCES AND IT'S EASIER FOR
THE AUDIENCE TO UNDERSTAND AND
EASIER FOR THE MEDIA TO COVER.
THESE ARE COMPLICATED ISSUES IT
TAKES A SEASONED PRESS IT TAKES A
LOT OF RESOURCES IT TAKES A LOT OF HARD WORK AND SHOE LEATHER TO
GET TO THAT POINT.
(MC)>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.
REPORTERS, I SUPPOSE, YOU KNOW,
YOU'VE BEEN ONE.
ARE THEY MORE STRESSED OR IS
THAT AN EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING
THE LAW, AS BOB FREEMAN SAYS?
Finnerty>> WELL, THEY DO THEIR BEST.
I THINK THEY'RE TORN IN MANY
DIRECTIONS TODAY.
I JUST THINK THERE IS FEWER
REPORTERS OUT THERE.
WHEN I FIRST STARTED AT
GANNET'S, THERE WERE TIMES UNION
AND DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE, JUST
TWO PAPERS.
(MC)>> BOTH OWNED BY GANNETT.
>> RIGHT, BUT THEY COMPETED VERY
HARD AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T
REALIZE THAT.
THERE WAS A WALL BETWEEN THE TWO
NEWSROOM, THERE WAS A CITY
HALL REPORTER FOR THE TIMES
UNION AND A CITY REPORTER FOR
THE D & C.
THEY WENT HEAD TO HEAD ALL THE
TIME.
THEY DIDN'T SHARE NOTES THEY COMPETED.
THEY FOUGHT FOR STORIES.
WHAT'S MISSING TODAY, IN THE OLD
DAYS A REPORTER AT THE TIMES
UNION COULD HAVE FOIA (FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS) AT
CITY HALL TO SEE WHAT OTHER FOIA'S WERE
OUT THERE.
THEY COULD ALMOST SPY ON THEIR
FELLOW REPORTERS TO SEE WHAT
THEY WERE REPORTING.
I DON'T THINK YOU SEE AS MUCH OF
THAT.
(MC)>> I THINK MR. FREEMAN IS SAYING
REPORTERS IN GENERAL DON'T KNOW
THE LAW LIKE THEY USED TO.
IS THAT A FAIR CRITICISM OF
REPORTERS?
Finnerty>> IT GOES NEWSROOM TO NEWSROOM
IN ROCHESTER, THEY DEFINITELY
HAVE THE TRAINING AND THE TOP
EDITORS WHO PUSH VERY HARD FOR
THIS, SO THEY'RE VERY COGNIZANT.
IT'S HIGH ON THEIR RADAR SCREEN.
(MC)>> NATIONALLY SPEAKING,
GLOBALLY, DO REPORTERS KNOW THE
LAW?
Proietti>> I THINK THEY KNOW THE LAW.
I THINK IT'S DIFFERENT.
(MC)>> HE (Freeman) WAS SAYING NO.
Proietti>> BOB'S JOB NOW IS TO MAKE LIFE
EASIER FOR REPORTERS.
IT'S MUCH EASIER TO GO TO
SOMEBODY LIKE BOB AND HAVE THE
STORY REPORTED THAT WAY RATHER
THAN GO BELOW THE SURFACE.
IT'S HARD WORK TO GET BELOW
THE SURFACE.
Finnerty>>I WOULD LIKE TO SAY NOW THAT I'M
IN PUBLIC RELATIONS, I STILL
DON'T EXPECT REPORTERS TO JUST
TAKE WHAT I GIVE THEM AS GOSPEL.
I EXPECT THEM TO GO AND CHECK
AND ASK.
(MC)>> LET'S TURN TO ANOTHER
PARTICIPANT AT THIS SEMINAR,
CONGRESSMAN LOUISE SLAUGHTER
WHO CALLED FOR RESURRECTING THE
FAIRNESS DOCTRINE.
HER REASON WAS POINT OF VIEW JOURNALISM.
Rep. Louise Slaughter (ON VIDEO)>> THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE INFECTED BY IT,
WITHOUT ANY ANECDOTE TO IT.
THIS IS WHY I BELIEVE STRONGLY
THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE SHOULD BE
BROUGHT BACK NOT TO PUT PEOPLE
OFF, BUT TO PUT THE TWO SIDES OF
THE ISSUE BACK ON.
THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE NEVER SAID
YOU HAVE HAVE TO HAVE TWO POINTS OF VIEW.
IF YOU ARE ASKED, YOU HAVE TO
GIVE TIME, TIME TO SOMEONE WHO
WANTS TO PRESENT AN OPPOSING
POINT OF VIEW.
(MC)>> TOM, LET ME GET TO THE
JOURNALISM PRACTICED BACK AT THE
TURN OF THE CENTURY.
THERE WERE NOT THE PAPERS THAT
WE'RE USING, OBJECTIVITY. OBJECTIVITY WASN'T THE WORD
BACK THEN. IT WAS A DEMOCRATIC
ORGAN, A REPUBLICAN ORGAN.
INFORMATION GOT OUT.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
THAT AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW.
Proietti>> LOUISE BRINGS UP AN INTERESTING
POINT ABOUT THE FAIRNESS
DOCTRINE.
FIRST OFF, WHAT YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT HISTORICALLY, THOSE WERE
BIG COMPANIES THAT WANTED TO
HAVE PARTICULAR SWAY ON EITHER
POLITICAL PARTY
(MC)>>I'M TALKING ABOUT A WILLIAM RANDOLPH HEARST
Proietti>> A HEARST OR
PULITZER OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. LOUISE IS TALKING ABOUT
SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN THAT.
THEY KIND OF WANT TO HAVE IT
BOTH WAYS.
THEY WANT TO TREAT BROADCASTERS,
BROADCAST NEWS AS FIRST
AMENDMENT PURVEYORS, THEN WE
HAVE TO TREAT THEM DIFFERENTLY
THAN WE'RE DOING TODAY.
THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE FORCED THE
FIRST AMENDMENT THING ON US.
GETTING RID OF IT, IT IS NOT WORKING.
(MC)>> HOW DO YOU LOOK AT POINT OF
VIEW JOURNALISM?
AGAIN, I BRING UP THE FACT THAT.....
YOU JUST DON'T READ ONE PAPER
OR READ ONE BROADCAST TO GET
YOUR NEWS, DO YOU?
Finnerty>> NO.
Proietti>>I THINK TODAY I WOULD LIKE TO
TELL STUDENTS THAT THEY NEED TO
GET THEIR NEWS FROM ALL POINTS
OF VIEW.
Finnerty>>YOU CAN'T JUST READ ONE
NEWSPAPER.
YOU CAN'T JUST WATCH ONE TV
PROGRAM.
YOU HAVE TO GET A WHOLE VARIETY,
CHECKING THE INTERNET.
THERE IS SO MUCH OUT THERE.
YOU HAVE TO ALMOST BECOME YOUR
OWN EDITOR.
YOU HAVE TO FILTER IT, TAKE IN
DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS.
(MC)>> ONE MORE THING THAT LOUISE
SLAUGHTER BROUGHT UP WAS THE
CONSOLIDATION OF MEDIA.
WHAM-TV NEWS DIRECTOR CHUCK
SAMUELS, ANOTHER PARTICIPANT AT
THE SEMINAR SAID, IT MAY BE A HELP
FOR SMALLER STATIONS TO SURVIVE.
HE SAID THERE ARE LOWER PROFITS.
MANY OF THEM ARE DEALING WITH
HIGHER COSTS MANDATED BY THE
GOVERNMENT SUCH AS TECHNOLOGY.
HERE IS CHUCK SAMUELS.
Chuck Samuels (ON VIDEO)>> HERE IN NEW YORK, CLEAR
CHANNEL HAS FIVE OR SIX
TELEVISION STATIONS AND IN
MARKETS LIKE BINGHAMTON AND
ELMIRA AND WATERTOWN, THOSE
STATIONS LOSE MONEY, SO THERE'S
NO WAY THEY CAN BE ECONOMICALLY
VIABLE WITHOUT THE RESOURCES OF
BIGGER COMPANIES.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT I
NECESSARILY AGREE WITH MEDIA
CONSOLIDATION.
I DO HONESTLY AS A JOURNALIST
BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE MORE
VOICES.
UNFORTUNATELY, I DO BELIEVE
SOMEWHERE DOWN THE ROAD, AND THIS
IS A FRIGHTENING THOUGHT, IN
ROCHESTER, WE HAVE FIVE
OPERATIONS, PLUS A PUBLIC
TELEVISION STATION THAT DO SOME
SORT OF NEWS BROADCAST. IN TWO
YEARS, I THINK WE'LL BE LUCKY
IF THERE ARE TWO.
(MC)>> WE'LL BE LUCKY IF THERE ARE
TWO. THAT'S SORT OF OMINOUS, ISN'T
IT, BOB?
Finnerty>> NO QUESTION.
THERE IS AN INFAMOUS SITUATION IN
NORTH DAKOTA WHERE THERE WAS A
TRAIN DERAILMENT.
ALL THE RADIO STATIONS WERE
OWNED BY CLEAR CHANNEL.
LAW ENFORCEMENTS WERE TRYING TO
GET AN EMERGENCY BROADCAST OUT.
WHEN THEY WENT TO DO THAT IN
THIS SMALL TOWN OF NORTH DAKOTA,
THEY CALLED THE RADIO STATIONS,
SIX OF THEM ACTUALLY, AND THERE
WAS NO ONE THERE.
THEY WERE COMPUTERIZED.
SOMEONE DIED AND SEVERAL PEOPLE
WERE HURT BECAUSE OF THE EXPOSURE
TO THIS.
(MC)>> LET'S JUST -- LET'S BRING UP
CHUCK SAMUELS REAL QUICK.
HE SAYS WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO
CONSOLIDATE AND HAVE A BIGGER
COMPANY, THESE BIGGER STATIONS
IN WATERTOWN, ELMIRA, PLACES
LIKE THAT WOULD NOT SURVIVE.
Proietti>> I DISAGREE.
IF I WERE A CLEAR CHANNEL
STOCKHOLDER, I WOULD TELL THEM
TO CLOSE THOSE STATIONS DOWN
IMMEDIATELY.
ON PAPER, THEY MAY LOSE MONEY
BUT THEY'RE NOT REALLY LOSING
MONEY.
(MC)>> THE BUSINESS DOESN'T SUPPORT
SOME PLACES THAT ARE LOSING
MONEY IN ORDER TO KEEP THEM?
Proietti>> OH, NO, I THINK IT HAPPENS IN
EVERY KIND OF BUSINESS.
(MC)>> SO THEY OUGHT TO BE CLOSING WATERTOWN
AND ELMYRA?
Proietti>> I DOUBT THAT.
IF YOU BROUGHT AN AUDITOR IN TO
LOOK AT THE BOTTOM LINES.
I THINK CHUCK IS BRINGING UP A
GOOD POINT THAT BIG CORPORATE
CONGLOMERATES DO HAVE THE
RESOURCES THAT SMALLER COMPANIES
DON'T HAVE.
THE QUESTION IS, THAT I HAVE FOR
CHUCK, AND HE AND I TALKED ABOUT
THIS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO USE
THIS?
(MC)>> DO WE NEED TO SEE A BREAKUP,
BOB OF BIG COMPANIES OR CAN
THERE BE A WAY THAT WE
INSTILL THE BELIEF IN BIG
COMPANIES TO REPORT, YOU KNOW,
DO WIDER REPORTING, USE MORE
OF THE MONEY, LESS OF THE
PROFITS FOR PROFIT TAKING?
Finnerty>> THEY ARE TRYING THEIR BEST TO
PUT RESOURCES INTO THE
NEWSROOMS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE LONG-RANGE
TRENDS OF FOLKS THAT WORK IN
NEWSROOMS, IT'S MUCH DIFFERENT NOW THAN WHAT IT
WAS 10, 15, 20 YEARS AGO.
(MC)>> I HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT.
TOM, WHAT SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST
CHANGE THAT WE SEE FROM
GOVERNMENT APPROACHED MEDIA?
Proietti>> NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
THE BIGGEST CHANGE SHOULD BE IN
THE AUDIENCE.
Finnerty>>WE SHOULD TEACH MEDIA LITERACY.
CARL BERNSTEIN SAYS WE HAVE AN
IDIOT CULTURE RIGHT NOW.
PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT J. LO.
THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT
THE GOVERNMENT.
HOW MANY PEOPLE WATCHED THE
PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS LAST NIGHT?
(MC)>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
THANKS FOR HELPING US. WE NEED YOUR COMMENTS.
YOU HAVE TWO WAYS TO GIVE THEM.
E-MAIL US AT NEED TO KNOW OR
CALL OR RESPONSE LINE.
THE NUMBER IS 258-0250.
Michael Caputo (MC)>> BIOTECHNOLOGY PROCESSES USE
CELLS AND MOLECULES TO MAKE
PRODUCTS INCREASINGLY BEING
CITED AS A WAY TO GROW THE
ECONOMY. BUT AS JULIE PHILIPP REPORTS IT IS
ALSO GROWING CONTROVERSY.
Julie Philipp (JP)>> MIKE, NEW YORK IS ALREADY ONE
OF THE NATION'S BIOTECH LEADERS,
AND A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF
RESEARCH IS UNDERWAY RIGHT HERE
IN ROCHESTER. AS STATE OFFICIALS PROPOSE
SPENDING MILLIONS MORE TO
PROMOTE BIOTECHNOLOGY AND LOCAL
BUSINESS AND ACADEMIC
INSTITUTIONS DEVELOP OR EXPAND
THEIR BIOTECH PROGRAMS, IT'S
CLEAR THE ISSUE OF BIOETHICS NOT
SIMPLY A NATIONAL DISCUSSION
ANYMORE.
THE MORALITY OF EMBRYONIC STEM
CELL RESEARCH AND CLONING IS
BEING DEBATED HERE.
THIS PAST WEEK, THE LOCAL
CHAPTER OF FEMINISTS FOR LIFE
HELD A FORUM AT MONROE COMMUNITY
COLLEGE.
THE AUDIENCE FILL ADD LARGE
MEETING ROOM.
Fr. Tadeusz Pacholczyk>> WE HAVE THE SCIENTISTS HERE
WITH THIS PETRI DISH AND THE
STEM CELLS GROWING AND HE SAYS
WITH STEM CELLS, WE CAN GROW
JUST ABOUT ANYTHING, AND AS YOU
CAN SEE WHAT HE ENDS UP GROWING
IS A MASSIVE ETHICAL DILEMMA,
WHICH IS, OF COURSE, WHAT WE'RE
GOING TO BE FOCUSING ON THIS
EVENING.
(JP)>> DR. TADEUSZ PACHOLCZYK, WHO CALLS HIMSELF DR. TAD, IS 14
EDUCATION DIRECTOR AT THE
NATIONAL CATHOLIC BIOETHICS
CENTER.
HE WAS GIVEN ONE HOUR TO SPEAK.
DR. MARK NOBLE, A UNIVERSITY OF
ROCHESTER GENETICS PROFESSOR,
WAS GIVEN 15 MINUTES TO RESPOND.
Dr. Mark Noble>> DON'T START THE CLOCK UNTIL
IT IS WOUND UP.
Pacholczyk>>THERE IS SO MUCH EXCITEMENT.
THERE IS SO MUCH HYPE, SO MUCH
TALK ABOUT MONEY TO PROMOTE
EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH,
THE STEM CELLS FROM EMBRYOS MUST
BE CURING SOMEONE SOMEWHERE OF
SOME DISEASE, AND THAT IS NOT
ACCURATE.
THE NUMBER OF HUMAN PATIENTS WHO
HAVE BEEN TREATED IN THE CLINIC
USING THESE CELLS IS PRECISELY
ZERO, NOT A SOUL HAS EVER BEEN
TREATED WITH THEM THUS FAR.
Noble>>THE FIRST TWO MILLION EMBRYONIC
STEM CELLS WAS ISOLATED IN 1997.
1997, AND IT'S ONLY IN THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS THAT WE EVEN
THINK THAT WE MIGHT HAVE CELLS
THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL FOR
CONSIDERATION IN CLINICAL TRIALS
IT TAKES 20 YEARS FOR WORK LIKE
THIS TO MATURE.
A CLAIM LIKE THAT DOES NOT
RECOGNIZE THE WAY MEDICINE
PROGRESSES.
I HAVE TO SAY, AS A SCIENTIST, I
DON'T FIND IT AN HONEST CLAIM,
BECAUSE IF YOU WERE TO APPLY
THAT TO OTHER MEDICAL
TREATMENTS, WE WOULD HAVE NONE.
Pacholczyk>>THERE ARE MANY SOURCES OF STEM
CELLS BESIDES EMBRYOS,
THOUSANDS, MAYBE TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
TREATED WITH ADULT AND UMBILICAL
CORD STEM CELL THERAPIES. TO
DRIVE THIS POINT HOME, I HAVE A
LISTING HERE OF THE VARIOUS
DISEASES THAT ARE CURRENTLY TREATABLE, USING UMBILICAL CORD
OR ADULT STEM CELLS.
Noble>>TO CLAIM THAT ADULT STEM CELLS
ARE ALL WE NEED HAS NO
SCIENTIFIC BASIS.
THIS LIST OF DISEASES IS
IMPRESSIVE.
IT'S WONDERFUL SCIENCE.
IT IS ALL TREATED WITH STEM
CELLS FROM THE BONE MARROW.
HERE IS THE LIST OF THE
SUCCESSFUL, CLINICALLY PROVEN
DISEASES TREATED WITH NON-BONE
MARROW DERIVED ADULT STEM CELLS.
Pacholczyk>>THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT
THERAPEUTIC CLONING AND
REPRODUCTIVE CLONING
BOTH CREATE A CLONED HUMAN
EMBRYO. THIS IS A VERY, VERY, VERY
CLEVER APPROACH TO GETTING
REJECTION-PROOF CELLS, BUT I
HOPE YOU WILL ALSO SEE THE INCREDIBLE MORAL TOLL OF WHAT IS
BEING PROPOSED - THAT YOU CREATE
HUMAN LIFE PRECISELY IN ORDER TO
EXTINGUISH IT, THAT YOU CREATE A
NEW HUMAN BEING WHO IS, INDEED,
RELATED TO YOU, PRECISELY SO
THAT YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
STRIP MINE THAT INDIVIDUAL.
Noble >> WE HAVE THE FUNDAMENTAL
DIFFERENCE OF OPINION YOU DEFINE
THIS AS A PERSON AND ALL OF YOUR
SUBSEQUENT ARGUMENTS..... YOU STATE
THIS AS THOUGH IT WERE A FACT,
WHEN, IN FACT, YOU ARE MOVING
YOUR ARGUMENT LIKE YOU ARE
CREATING THE DEFINITION.
(JP)>>PACHOLCZYK AND TADEUSZ
USED PICTURES OF
PERSONAL STORIES AND
HYPOTHETICAL MORAL DILEMMAS IN
THEIR PRESENTATIONS.
PROOF THATÖTO MANY PEOPLEÖ BIOTECHNOLOGY IS MORE THAN A
SCIENCE OR A WAY TO MAKE MONEY.
Noble>> EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS IS
EMOTIONAL.THAT'S WHY SO MANY OF YOU ARE
HERE TONIGHT.
Michael Caputo>> SO, LET'S MOVE FROM THE
EMOTIONAL TO THE PRACTICAL TO
HELP US.
RICK RICHMOND, THE FORMER
PRESIDENT OF A COMPANY THAT MADE
MEDICAL DEVICES AND NOW AND AN ENTREPRENEUR
In RESIDENCE SPECIALIZING IN THE HEALTH
INDUSTRY.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
LET'S MOVE AWAY FROM THE EMOTION
FOR A MOMENT.
WE KNOW ROCHESTER AND UPSTATE
NEW YORK AND THE NATION IS
CHASING AFTER BIOTECH JOBS.
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF STEM CELL
RESEARCH IS PART OF THAT BROADER
UMBRELLA OF BIOTECHNOLOGY?
Rick Richmond>> I CAN'T GIVE A PRECISE NUMBER, BUT IT'S A
VERY SMALL PART OF
BIOTECHNOLOGY. THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON HERE
IN ROCHESTER AT R.I.T. AND THE
UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER AS WELL
AS IN UPSTATE.... THE MEDICAL CENTER IN
SYRACUSE, THE UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO
AND ROSWELL PARK THAT DOES NOT
RELATE TO STEM CELL RESEARCH.
THERE ARE SO MANY TOPICS WHERE
WE CAN ADVANCE HEALTHCARE.
STEM CELL RESEARCH IS AN
IMPORTANT PART BUT A SMALL PART.
(MC)>> IT IS A SMALL PART.
DO YOU EVER WORRY THAT THE FOCUS
ON STEM CELL RESEARCH COULD TAKE
US AWAY FROM ALL THE OTHER
THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT,
DECIDE UPON, DEVELOP IN
BIOTECHNOLOGY?
Richmond>> THERE IS ALWAYS THAT RISK.
I THINK IT IS A VERY SMALL RISK.
AS I SAID, THERE ARE SO MANY
THINGS GOING ON, AND THERE IS SO
MUCH EVIDENCE OF GOOD MEDICAL
DEVELOPMENTS, GOOD RESEARCH THAT
ARE LEADING TO BETTER THERAPIES
IN SO MANY DIFFERENT FIELDS, AND
I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
FUNDING AT CORPORATE
LEVEL AND THE GOVERNMENT
LEVEL ARE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE
DISTINCTION IS THERE, AND THEY
ARE AVOIDING AS MUCH AS THEY CAN
THE PROBLEMS THAT ENSUE.
(MC)>> HOW FAR OFF IS THE PRACTICAL
APPLICATION OF STEM CELL
RESEARCH WHEN WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT BUSINESS USE?
ARE WE FAR AWAY FROM IT?
Richmond>> WE'RE SEVERAL YEARS AWAY FROM
ACTUALLY USING IT AS A
REGENERATIVE THERAPY.
WE'RE CLOSER, PROBABLY, BUT
STILL SEVERAL YEARS OFF, IN
TERMS OF USING IT AS A TESTING
METHOD FOR TESTING
PHARMACEUTICALS, LESSENING THE USE OF ANIMALS AND
GETTING INTO MORE CELL CULTURE,
STEM CELL CULTURE MAY BE A WAY
TO REDUCE THAT SUBSTANTIALLY.
(MC)>> SO WE'RE CLOSER WITH THAT.
Richmond>> POSSIBLY.
THERE IS STILL SO MUCH WORK TO
BE DONE.
IT'S STILL VERY EARLY.
(MC)>> IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE TWO THINGS YOU JUST
MENTIONED IN TERMS OF THE
POSSIBILITY FOR GROWING JOBS,
FOR DEVELOPING BUSINESSES?
, YOU KNOW?
IS ONE MORE.... WHAT IS THE WORD,
LUCRATIVE.... I DON'T WANT TO USE
THAT WORD, BUT SOMETHING YOU CAN
EXPLAIN AS A LITTLE EASIER IN TERMS
OF CREATING NEW JOBS?
Richmond>> IN TERMS OF NEW JOBS AND NEW
BUSINESSES, THE REGENERATIVE
MEDICINE SIDE IS MUCH, MUCH
BIGGER T IS FURTHER AWAY BUT
MUCH BIGGER, BOUGHT IT HAS THE
ABILITY TO -- THE POTENTIAL, I
CAN SAY, I CAN'T SAY WITH
CERTAINTY, BUT THE POTENTIAL FOR
ALLOWING US TO HAVE BETTER
TREATMENTS FOR STROKE, FOR HEART
DISSEAT, FOR ALZHEIMER'S
DISEASE, FOR DIABETES AND A WIDE
RANGE OF CELLULAR-BASED PROBLEMS
WITHIN THE BODY THAT MAY BE
SOLVABLE OR MAY BE TREATABLE BY
USING THE OUTCOME OF STEM CELL
RESEARCH, BUT AGAIN, MANY YEARS
OFF.
(MC) >> HOW DO YOU THINK
ENTREPRENEURS, PEOPLE WHO MIGHT
INVEST IN COMPANIES, VIEW THE
CONTROVERSY AROUND STEM CELLS?
IN OTHER WORDS, ARE THEY PUT OFF
BY THE FACT THAT THIS IS SUCH A
CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE THAT THEY
MIGHT NOT FUND SOMETHING THAT
MIGHT BE READY TO START UP AS A
BUSINESS?
Richmond>> VERY LITTLE, BECAUSE A LOT OF
THE STEM CELL RESEARCH THAT IS
GOING ON IS NOT EMBRYO BASED
STEM CELL RESEARCH.
IT'S BASED UPON MATURE STEM
CELLS AND ALSO, THE FEDERAL NIH
IS CONTINUING TO FUND STEM CELL
RESEARCH WITHIN THE GUIDELINES
PROVIDED BY THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION.
MANY STATES ARE STEPPING IN, AND
SUPPLEMENTING THE FUNDING WHERE
IT'S -- WHERE THE BUSH
GUIDELINES ARE KEEPING
RESEARCHERS ARE DOING IT.
(MC)>> CALIFORNIA?
Richmond>> CALIFORNIA IS A PRIME
EXAMPLE, YES.
(MC)>> I THINK YOU WOULD BE WORRIED
IF YOU ARE FROM NEW YORK, WOULDN'T YOU?
Richmond>> I THINK A LOT OF THE BUSINESS
DEVELOPMENT WILL END UP IN THE
STATES THAT DO SUPPORT IT, AND
THERE WILL BE MORE OF A HURDLE
FOR THE IN THOSE STATES WHERE
THERE IS NOT SUPPORT.
(MC)>> I'M JUST GOING TO GET TO THAT
AND WE HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS
LEFT. IT IS A STATE BY STATE THING.
DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS
PUT OFF BY THE DEBATE, AND FOR
NEW YORK, COULD THAT BE A WORRY?
Richmond>> OH, EACH STATE GOVERNMENT IS
DEBATING IT, AND EVERYONE IS
TAKING SIDES AND SOME STATES
WILL COME DOWN ON ONE SIDE AND
SOME ON THE OTHER.
FOR NEW YORK STATE, MY HOPE IS
THAT THEY WILL SUPPORT IT,
BECAUSE I THINK IT WILL HAVE
SOME IMPACT FOR US POSITIVELY.
(MC)>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
WITH US.
NOW WE WILL MOVE TO THE BUSINESS
SECTION WITH THE DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE.
Julie Philipp>> WITH US IS ELLEN ROSEN,
BUSINESS EDITOR FOR THE DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
Ellen Rosen>> THANK YOU.
(JP) >> FIRST OFF,BAUSCH &
LOMB
Rosen>> THEY ANNOUNCED AT ITS ANNUAL
MEETING THIS WEEK IT IS MAKING A
GIFT TO THE ROCHESTER INSTITUTE
OF TECHNOLOGY FOR THE PURPOSE OF
ESTABLISHING A CHAIR TO REALLY
GET A DEPARTMENT GOING IN
BIOSCIENCE AND BIOTECHNOLOGY.
THEY ARE REALLY LOOKING AT NANO
TECHNOLOGY, THINGS THAT THEY CAN
MARKET AT SOME POINT, THINGS
LIKE DELIVERING MEDICATIONS TO
THE BACK OF THE EYE AND WAYS
THAT NANO TECHNOLOGY WHICH IS
VIEWED AS TINY TECHNOLOGY, TO
IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE.
(JP)>> AS ROCHESTER IS TRANSITIONING
MORE TO THE HIGH-TECH FIELDS.
DO YOU FIND YOUR REPORTERS ON COLLEGE
AND UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES MORE
OFTEN?
Rosen>> IT IS AN AREA EVERYONE IS
GETTING INTO NOT JUST HERE BUT
AROUND THE COUNTRY AS A GREAT
WAY TO GROW YOUR ECONOMY AND IT IS
IDENTIFIED AS AN AREA FOR
EMPLOYMENT GROWTH.
YOU U OF R HAS A BASE AND R.I.T.
IS GETTING INTO IT AS WELL.
(JP)>>ROCHESTER TO ROCHESTER... TELL US ABOUT THAT.
Rosen>> THAT GOES BACK TO DIGITAL
ROCHESTER AND GREATER ROCHESTER
ENTERPRISE, A PRIVATELY FUNDED
GROUP TO PROMOTE DEVELOPMENT.
EVERYONE IS WAITING FOR THE NEXT
KODAK ... TO COME IN
AND BRING IN 20,000 JOBS,
30,000 JOBS. HOW LIKELY IS THAT TO HAPPEN
IT'S NOT LIKELY, SO THE
CONCEPT IS TO GROW YOUR OWN.
THEY IDENTIFY TECHNOLOGY
COMPANIES WHERE THEY FELT THERE
WAS GREAT GROWTH IN TERMS OF JOB
CREATION AND REALLY GROWING IN
THE ECONOMY AND DEVELOPING
WITHIN HERE IN ROCHESTER AND
BROUGHT THEM TOGETHER TO TALK
ABOUT HOW THEY COULD DO THAT
WITHIN ROCHESTER.
(JP)>> STRUCTURING THE ECONOMY?
Rosen>> YES, IT IS THAT WHOLE
PHILOSOPHY OF GROW YOUR OWN,
YOU ARE ALREADY HERE.
HOW CAN WE HELP YOU GROW WHAT
PROGRAMS ARE OUT THERE, WHAT
SERVICES CAN BE DONE FOR YOU IN
THIS ECONOMY THAT WILL HELP YOU
GROW YOUR BUSINESS AND ADD
EMPLOYEES AND EVENTUALLY BECOME
THAT 20,0000 EXPLOYEE COMPANY
WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE IT MOVE
IN.
(JP)>> AND THEY HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT
THIS LINK BETWEEN THE BUSINESSES
AND UNIVERSITIES AND GETTING THE
RESEARCH OUT OF OUR
UNIVERSITIES?
Rosen>> UNIVERSITIES ARE HUGE
ECONOMIC ENGINES FOR US.
U OF R IS OUR NUMBER TWO EMPLOYER AND POSSIBLY HEADING TOWARD
NUMBER ONE AS KODAK CONTINUES TO
CUT JOBS. R.I.T. IS A MAJOR EMPLOYER.
WE HAVE A LARGE BASE OF
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY GOING ON
IN THIS COMMUNITY.
(JP)>> OKAY.ONE OF THEIR SPEAKERS WAS THE
PAETEC CEO. HE IS
THE FOUNDER AND CE-O.
HE WAS ONE OF THE SPEAKERS, ONE
OF THEIR SHINING EXAMPLES.
HE IS NOT THAT TWENTY OR THIRTY THOUSAND-EMPLOYEE COMPANY BUT HE HAS
BEEN SUCCESSFUL.- ARUNAS CHESONIS?
Rosen>> ARUNAS CHESONIS.
(JP)>>THEY WERE IN THE NEWS.
Rosen>> >> YES, THEY HAVE BEEN A VERY
SUCCESSFUL COMPANY.
UP UNTIL NOW, A PRIVATE COMPANY.
THIS IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT
WALKED OUT OF THE FORMER AT&T
TELECOM COMPANY.
THEY WALKED AWAy, A WHOLE
GROUP OF THEM, GOT TOGETHER AND
UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP FOUNDED
THIS COMPANY
(JP)>>AND THEY ARE TRYING
TO GO PUBLIC.
Rosen>> THEY TRIED TWO OTHER TIMES.
THE FIRST TIME THEY PULLED BACK
BEFORE THEY DID IT,
BEFORE THEY WENT PUBLIC.
THE SECOND TIME, THEY PULLED
BACK LAST SUMMER.
(JP)>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS
ATTEMPT?
Rosen>> WELL, THEY REALLY FEEL MORE
CONFIDENT. THE LAST TIME THEY PULLED BACK
SAYING THERE WERE ISSUES WITH
PRICE.
(JP)>> THANKS, ELLEN. DID YOU MISS OUR INTERVIEW
WITH DR. TIMOTHY QUILL OR THE
RED WINGS GENERAL MANAGER DAN
MASON?
OUR REPORT ON THE PUBLIC DEFENSE
SYSTEM.
IF YOU HAVE TIME WARNER'S VIDEO
ON DEMAND YOU CAN CALL UP THE
PROGRAMS AT ANY TIME.
DIAL UP CHANNEL 716 ROCHESTER
ON DEMAND, FIND WXXI NEWS FOR
RECENT PROGRAMS.
Michael Caputo>> THAT'S OUR REPORT.
ONE CORRECTION BEFORE WE GO.
LAST WEEK WE INTRODUCED OUR
GUEST, R.I.T.'S FINANCIAL EXPERT
ROBERT MANNING WITH AN OLD
TITLE. HIS TITLE IS PROFESSOR AND SPECIAL
ASSISTANT TO THE PROVOST.
WE REGRET THE ERROR.
NEXT WEEK WE LOOK AT THE
ROCHESTER MAYORAL CAMPAIGN WITH
A LOOK AT THE VOTER PARTNERS AND
OUR CITIZEN PANEL.
JOIN US THEN.