>> Coming up on "need to know" presidential politics is coming
to the flower city.-
We'll stage a debate of our own with supporters of the
democratic hopefuls weighing in on their chances to win the
nomination.-
We'll also open up the business section of the "democrat and
chronicle" and we'll look at an exhibit that's bringing
Frederick Douglas to life.-
Stay right here for "need to know."-
[Captioning Made Possible by the U.S. Department of Education]-
-
>> Thanks for joining us.-
I'm Michael Caputo.-
Suddenly, New York state is in play when it comes to
presidential politics, and candidates or their spouses are
planning to make appearances here.-
The wife of senator john Kerry, Teresa Heinz Kerr are, an
senator john Edwards plan stops in Rochester.-
Edwards is talking about going across upstate New York before
the march 2 super Tuesday primary, which, of course, includes
New York.-
So it's fitting.-
Now we have a look at this democratic primary through the eyes
of Rochester and western New York.-
But first a little recap of the race as it stappeds.-
Massachusetts senator john Kerry remains the clear front run
efor the nomination heaches taken most of the primaries and
caucuses held up until now.-
Pollsters say Kerry's support comes from a perceived
electability.-
John Edwards is the first-term senator from North Carolina.-
He's the alternative now after a close second in the Wisconsin
primary.-
Edwards is banking on his southern roots, which Democrats have
needed to overcome Republicans for the White House in the
past.-
Then there's Howard dean.-
Once thought of as the front runner, the man who raised
millions of dollars through the internet, the man who sold
himself as the candidate for the "democratic wing of the
democratic party."-
Dean now has bowed out after failing to win any primaries,
although his name does remain on the bat lol in places.-
his energetic following could be a key in what democrat takes
the nomination this fall.-
We've got a mock d bait set up herement we'll try to ask
questions that might be important to Rochesterians.-
We have three able representatives for the candidates.-
Kevin Murray, a Monroe couventri legislator and a delegate for
john Kerry.-
Rick dollinger, a former state senator and rot Chester region's
campaign coordinator for john Edwards.-
Ted O'Brien, former Monroe country democratic chairman and a
coordinator for the Howard dean campaign.-
Also us with in the studio to help with the questioning is Joe
spector, political reporter for "the democrat and chronicle."-
You have two guys in the race still, john Kerry, john Edwards,
9 the two scombrons.-
They're both claiming they're the one who's more electable.-
-
>> I think the proof of electability is being elected.-
We've had 17 primaries and caucuses and john Kerry has won 15
of them overwhelmingly.-
And that's something without precedent in primary elections.-
Also, I think, the polls have shown that he's the person who
can beat George bush.-
He consistently is above bush in recent weeks.-
We also see that exit polling shows that people who voted for
other candidates in the caucuses and primaries all say they
would be very comfortable with john Kerry as the democratic
nominee and would vote for him as the next president.-
-
>> You know the argument is going to be you have to get
Republicans and independents to vote for a democratic candidate
and a guy from the Northeast, from Massachusetts noless, is not
going to be able to do it.-
-
>> Well, emean rg I think that's something, john Kenly
obviously did it in the past.-
-
>> Michael Dukakis didn't, though.-
-
>> It's individual candidates.-
Some are going to do it, some are not going to do it.-
Depends on the times.-
I think right now, president bush having negative job growth,
the only president since Herbert Hoover to have that, I think
electability of a democrat is a lot more probable than it would
be in a different environment.-
We have a situation where I think the country is looking for an
alternative.-
They've seen Mr. Bush, they gave him a chance in a very narrow
election four years ago.-
I think there's disappointment on the part of many in terms of
what has happened, in terms of the economy, in terms of our
foreign relations.-
-
>> So Rick, why isn't your man, john Edwards, the real one?-
The real electable one here?-
>> I think he is.-
First of all, I think this is a battle between the mustang and
the Corvette against an old jilopy being run into the ground by
George bush.-
I think both of these candidates have enough horsepower under
the hood, to use the NASCAR phrase, to beat George bush.-
But I think john Edwards still holds the best possibility.-
If you look at the exit polls in Wisconsin, it showed that
Republicans and independents were going to -- voted for john
Edwards at a rate twice that they voted for senator john
Kerry.-
I also agree and I agree with Kevin, we talked about this off
the air, that john Edwards has to prove that ewlectability
translates to winning elections.-
If he doesn't win several states in the super Tuesday primary,
I don't think he can lay the claim to being the electable
candidate.-
The more people that have gotten to know john Edwards, the
stronger his performance has been.-
>> As we talked about before, john Edwards, he's from the
south, that's something he's pointing to, democrats from the
south win big races.-
But he is not coming in like bill Clinton did, like Jimmy
Carter did with experience.-
He's a first-term senator.-
>> I think people are look for a new voice in Washington.-
One of the ways George bush was able to win it in the year
2000, he said I'm an outsider.-
I'm a guy that will bring a new attitude towards Washington.-
I agree with Kevin, I think the voters are really deeply
frustrated with the lack of performance by the bush
administration.-
But I think john Edwards with a young man with real energy, a
tremendous stump speech, I think he's got the ability to
portray himself as the new vision for America.-
>> I think we're going to have to find out who the Corvette and
who the mustang is a little bit later.-
I want to get to Howard dean.-
Here's a guy who used the internet to get a lot of donations, a
guy who was -- everybody is claiming energized the democratic
party.-
Shouldn't he just get off the ballot?-
Shouldn't he not only be off the ballot but shouldn't h he be
endorsing someone right now and stepping right out of this
race, Ted O'Brien?-
-
>> I think governor dean is going to support whoever the
democratic nominee is.-
I don't know if there's necessarily a need for him to endorse
one candidate.-
Let the voters decide, I think that's smart.-
He's going to aggressively campaign for whoever the democratic
nominee is he realize what is his supporters realize, George
bush needs to be out of the White House in the fall.-
>> Now that he's out of the race, how do you feel his impact
has on, you know, on the democratic party, and on a lot of the
local volunteers here who are -- who came out of the woodwork
to support him and now think they might want to stay in and
work with other races?-
-
>> The Democrats have a gratitude for Howard dean for
energizing the base like we haven't seen before, defining a
message for the democratic party when others weren't willing to
say it.-
Other candidates have gravitated towards this message of a need
for change that's going to stay with the democratic party for a
long time.-
I saw in one of the blogs on the internet the other day,
someone saying Howard dean ought to be chair for the D.N.C.-
He's great for fundraising ability and he's willing to say what
needs to be said when no one else is.-
That's the kind of courage you need.-
>> What about here in ro chester?-
specifically about getting more people involved?-
Do you think his message and his ability to get people involved
with his campaign is going to carry on to other campaigns in ro
chester?-
-
>> You know, that's maybe been the most exciting thing about
being involved in the dean campaign.-
You know, his energy, his drive and his message brought so many
people to politics who hadn't ever been involved before.-
As you kind of do, you know, ad hoc polling of what people are
thinking now, some are difficult drifting towards other
presidential candidates, but by and large, most want to stay
involved in politics for some way or another, whether that be
for state races, congressional races, presidential race.-
People have different feelings about it.-
A lot of people, by the way, are still working hard for Howard
dean even though the's not actively campaigning.-
But they're involved in politics which is a wonderful thing.-
>> I think Howard dean is important to the democratic effort
this year because he energized a group and a constituency the
Democrats need.-
Young people.-
People who feel disenfranchised.-
My big concern is that if there's not a successful transition,
whoever the nominee is, they can't pick up that support, the
danger is they go off and vote for Ralph Nader as they did in
2000, siphoning off votes.-
-
>> Everybody is in I a agreement that dean's posture at this
point is OK?-
Shouldn't dean be backing one of the two remaining Democrats at
this point?-
-
>> That's up to him.-
He certainly has that option.-
Mr. Gephardt, Mr. Clark did come out and supported john Kerry.-
And we're certainly grateful for that support.-
We would certainly be grateful for Howard dean's support.-
But I don't think there's any requirement for him to do it.-
He's talking about keeping the momentum he's built up and
moving it into campaigns for congress, as well as the
presidency.-
I think -
>> I think he has to define the role for those people who have
come into the party through his efforts.-
-
>> If you went about Ralph Nader, having Howard dean there is
almost like a place holder for all these people who might then
gravitate to Ralph Nader.-
If dean came out tomorrow and said I'm with Kerry and/or
Edwards, wouldn't that push the supporters to go start fighting
for one or the other?-
>> Howard dean made it clear he will support the nominee of the
democratic party.-
That's a very important statement and he's been consistent on
that for a long time.-
You know, there's no talk of any third movement or, you know,
taking his people or sitting on them or whatever.-
He's made very clear that winning the presidency is the most
important thing and he will support the nominee of the
democratic party.-
-
>> I agree with Kevin.-
He has made that absolutely crystal clear.-
I think the nominee has to embrace the people and the positions
and to some extent, to the extent they can that Howard dean has
articulated to bring that wave of support into the democratic
party.-
I also think that there's no question in my mind that the dean
message was focused on, we have to beat George bush.-
That is the ultimate push behind the dean message.-
Part of the Kerry message and part of the Edwards message.-
And to be successful this fall, you have to bring those people
and say, whether it's john Kerry, john Edwards, whoever it's
going to be, that candidate can beat George bush and the only
way we're going to do it is we need everybody pulling on the
same ore.-
>> John Edwards this week has been pretty strong in his message
for anti-NAFTA, anti-free trade poll circumstance hoping that
will play well in upstate New York, as it did for him in
Wisconsin.-
Do you think that message is going to radiate here in upstate?-
-
>> I think it does.-
Those headlines we saw months ago about the loss of jobs at
Kodak, downsizing, continuing downsizing.-
I think there's an apprehension in this community about job
growth.-
It was part of the county executive race three months ago and I
think that john Edwards' message of NAFTA, we've got go back to
the table and renegotiate the whole deal and come up with a
better deal for upstate New York, for Ohio.-
The old industrial crescent in the south shore of lake Ontario,
Ohio, New York, Michigan, Indiana, New York.-
-
>> Difference in their appearance on the record.-
Voting record of senator Kerry and senator Edwards as I
understand it is identical.-
Senator Edwards claims he would have, had he been in office
voted against NAFTA and other things.-
of course, he wasn't in office, so we don't know what he
actually would have done because he wasn't there.-
But, you know, senator Kerry has spoken at great length about
putting trade agreements in terms of the environment and
protection for labor.-
These are things that president bush has not put into effect.-
That the senate understanding these would be parts of the
legislation.-
It never really happened.-
-
>> I want to ask Ted O'Brien rg because you're a former county
chair as well, the appeal to upstate New York is interesting.-
John Edwards apparently is really trying to court upstate a lit
bit more.-
But, you know, the democratic power, the democratic voters are
down state.-
Is this a mistake on his part?-
>> well, you negotiation I think probably starting with senator
shumer and mildly expanded on senator Clinton in their races
recognize the importance of the upstate voter and it is a huge
bloc of the total vote in the election now.-
You can't ignore the upstate.-
>> We're not talking about a statewide inclusion of Republicans
and independents.-
It's just a democratic vofmente it's a down state vote, isn't
it?-
-
>> I don't think so.-
Particularly you're trying to get the voters who are likely to
be unhappy with the current status quo.-
And nobody has been hurt more hard, really across the country
than people who live in upstate New York.-
This is an area where there should be fertile makings for in
roads by whoever the democratic nominee is because of the job
loss we're experienced here.-
>> I think this is where john Edwards thinks he can get votes.-
Hinge his message plays well here.-
And my guess is that his pitch at the end of these primaries,
if he wins enough and still is in this race, he's going to
argue as he did coming out of Wisconsin that he can attract mod
rat Democrats, independents an Republicans and they'll vote for
him for Republicans.-
-
>> New York moved up its primary to be a part of super
Tuesday.-
Do you think this is it?-
The last stand for either Kerry moving on and getting the
nomination or for Edwards to make a real push?-
-
>> Kevin and I were talking about this before.-
And clearly, john Edwards is not competing in several of the
states.-
So he's not even going to be in three of four of these states.-
In my personal sense, it is that he either has to finish very
close in New York and o oh, preferably to keep the candidacy
alive.-
At some point it becomes a numbers game.-
>> Are people getting tired of this very close stuff?-
-
>> You want to keep the enthusiasm going and the process, you
know, going.-
I think it's very helpful in terms of, you know, just this show
and all of the other shows that put attention upon Democrats.-
I think it's very helpful.-
But the reality of the situation is there's 10 states.-
Five of them, you know, Mr. Edwards isn't even going to
campaign in.-
Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and he's
going to make certain areas of California.-
The name of the game right now is delegates.-
Finishing close second or third really isn't going to do it any
longer.-
John Kerry has won 15 out of 17.-
No one in either party in a contested primary situation has
ever done that before.-
That's very, very powerful.-
-
>> I've got a couple of minutes left.-
How big is organized labor in this state in this primary for
either of these two candidates?-
-
>> Well, you know, organized labor is taking it on the nose.-
They supported Gephardt and dean in Iowa and of course they
finished third and fourth.-
Inability to really organize and get people to the polls is, I
think, a shortcoming in the philosophy that unions are going to
carry the day for a particular candidate.-
That's not to completely dismiss the relevancy of the union
organizations to get grassroots people on the street.-
I think if you're looking in New York and upstate New York,
maybe a weakness in the Edwards campaign is people on the
ground here working.-
And I think Kerry has the advantage there.-
And partly due to union support.-
>> I mean, the unions first of all, until recently, the union
were fractured.-
Kerry had union support, dean had union support, Gephardt had a
lot of union supports.-
Those unions have come together.-
The afl-cio is now behind Kerry.-
So now unions are much more together than they were before.-
Unions provide, as Ted said, feet.-
They provide phoners, phone banks.-
Union to union message when they're calling their members to
get out and vote.-
That can be very helpful in a primary election.-
>> Isn't it difficult for Edwards to say he's working for the
labor, the common guy, he's a voice for the common guy when the
unions are backing john Kerry?-
-
>> No question the afl-cio wanted to be the win e.-
They thought Howard dean was going to be the winner and all the
unions jumped on Howard dean.-
It didn't help him in Iowa.-
It didn't help dick Gephardt to have industrial trades.-
It didn't help Howard dean in Michigan.-
Didn't help anybody.-
Didn't help Howard dean in Wisconsin.-
I think this is a race about the average worker and his job
security.-
There's no question that the labor movement gives exactly what
Kevin described, phones an people on the street and people
handing out leaflets that's critically important in a primary,
even more so than a general.-
But john Edwards has been able to say, he's pitching a vote for
the common worker.-
It's worked.-
It's beginning to work even more and he could catch fire this
super Tuesday.-
-
>> Two seconds left.-
-
>> He doesn't contend.-
-
>> Before we go, we need a prediction.-
How many states on super Tuesday does Edwards get?-
-
>> I would predict he gets one, maybe two.-
-
>> How many does Edwards get?-
>> I think three or four.-
But my view is he's got to win New York and Ohio.-
>> I like Edwards but I think he would be lucky to win one on
honestly.-
>> I want to thank you all for being here, especially Joe
spector.-
The "democrat and chronicle" will have a voter guide.-
-
>> A breakdown of the candidates so people have a clear sense
of who to vote for.-
>> The conversation can continue.-
We want your feedback.-
Join in by emails us at needtoknow@wxxi.org.-
Or phoning 258-0250.-
Let's turn now to the business section of the "democrat and
chronicle."-
-
>> Joining us now is Ben rand, business reporter for the
"democrat and chronicle."-
Just took a trip to Las Vegas and not gamble.-
Ive a show there in Las Vegas.-
-
>> It's the photo industry doing the gambling, like Kodak.-
Interestingly enough, we heard a lot about film there.-
And kind of a funny, almost contradiction in terms barbgs
they're talking about shrinking the film.-
They wanted to tell the industry that no, we're not abandoning
the product and there's still 600 million rolls out there.-
You know, we're going to continue to support.-
One of the things that got a lot of attention was a kiosk, like
an A.T.M. that will process your film automatically without any
operator intervention while you wait about 4 1/2 minutes.-
-
>> So they did talk a lot film, how much of it was talking
about what is coming?-
The digital?-
How much of Kodak time was spent on new ---
>> The majority.-
The entire industry is talking about an explosion of digital
images and how to convert that to money.-
And so whereas today there might be something like 80 billion
pictures taken on film, they think there's going to be
exponentially more on top of that.-
And the whole idea is find ways to get people to print them.-
>> That's the thing.-
Convert it to money, and we were talking about this before,
before we started talking about it here.-
Converting to money gets people to print it, right?-
-
>> To a large degree, absolutely.-
>> I've got more than 100 pictures in my digital camera.-
I haven't printed once.-
How do you get people like me who are new to this, how does
Kodak get them to print?-
>> I think industry is talking about it in two ways.-
One is marketing.-
There's an association starting a campaign called "prints are
memories."-
If you have it in your computer, that's great.-
But it's not a memory until it's on paper where you can put it
in album.-
Memory formats change.-
You lose track of what you put on your computer.-
And the other thing is sort of making it available everywhere,
kiosks in nontraditional locations.-
7-eleven just signed a deal to put kiosks in 7-eleven stores.-
-
>> -
>> Is kiosks one of many?-
-
>> Sure because there are a lot of people trying to make it
easier to print at home.-
Kodak has a thing called a printer doc, which is one button
simple printing.-
especially son came out with a me too product, same kind of
concept.-
So what you're really seeing evolve is a network where you can
print at home, you can print on line, you can print up in
stores, you can print at the stores of and once that starts to
flourish, that's where people think the opportunity lies.-
>> You know how much Kodak is going to spend at this point in
trying to inform us that prints are the way to go?-
Is the company looking at it?-
Is the association looking at how much it needs to spend to get
people more motivated?-
Or is that still up in the air at this point?-
-
>> Well, I think -- I can't quote you an exact figure, but I
think you'll see stom themes in their advertising.-
Some retailers, Scott photo ran a campaign on cable TV last
year that, you know, a child asks mom, why are my pictures
green?-
She said well, because dad printed them on an ink jet printer.-
That was an idea to bring volume to the retailer to make a
durable, long-lasting photo print.-
>> In terms of ink jet market, is it true that Kodak talked a
little bit about getting bah into that market at this meeting?-
-
>> They talk a lit bit about that.-
They've been talking about that, but they're not being very
specific about it.-
There's very promising technology coming out of their labs that
they want to convert to some sort of place so it's a little
unclear.-
The thing that got the most attention, perhaps not the most,
but a lot of attention are these camera phones.-
cell phones with cameras built in.-
Those are going to outsell digital cameras, all kinds of
cameras this year.-
And so now there's a lot of talk about, you know, can you take
those images and turn them to print?-
It's ooh it's going to be even harder, isn't it?-
You talk about people who take a picture.-
I think they really think of them as disposable, don't they?-
>> surement but you're talking about wireless transmission.-
Point it at the kiosk, go to the kiosk and make your print.-
There's lot of interfaces that allow you to print right to a
retailer and go pick it up yourself.-
So they're working really hard to make it easier.-
Will it be a fad?-
I don't know.-
Wednesday's "New York Times" had a picture on the front page
taken by a cell phone camera.-
So good enough for them, I think, you know.-
A -
>> Just have about 30 seconds.-
Investors have been basically telling folks to avoid Kodak.-
Are they changing at all?-
Are they worth the risssnk -
>> You know, I guess I would have to say there's a real
diversity of opinion.-
Some people think they are worth the risk.-
There's a mutual fund family in Maryland, legg mason that added
about 2.5 million shares in the fall.-
On the flip side, you have Carl icon, the corporate raider, he
sold his shares.-
-
>> Is that good news or bad news?-
>> I don't know.-
But what you see is this churn in the investor base because
Kodak cut the dividend, now some people who wanted the dividend
money left.-
Other people come in and evaluate it as a potential growth
stock that's settling out still, I think.-
>> Thank you very much.-
We would like to close this program now with a look at how
Rochester is memorializing Frederick Douglass.-
This is black history month and no figure looms large ner
Rochester history than Frederick Douglass.-
"need to know's" john Kaiser gives you a look at Rochester's
Frederick Douglass now showing at the Rochester museum and
science center.-
-
>> Many of us now Frederick Douglass as a true visionary a
great leader and champion for human rights during America's
dark slave years.-
Now thanks to the hard work of many community volunteers, the
Rochester museum and science Septemberer is allowing us to walk
in Frederick Douglass' shoes by op oping a new interactive
exhibition called "Rochester's Frederick Douglass."-
-
>> Rochester's Frederick Douglass takes up in the footsteps of
Frederick Douglass from his birth and to enslavement on the
eastern shore of Maryland to his death in Washington, D.C.-
The exhibit is divided into two parts.-
Part one is the world that Douglas was born into, the world of
enslavement.-
And we learn about the try angle trade in Africa.-
We learn about the middle passage which Douglas termed a sea of
agonies from America to Africa.-
And we learn about Douglass' ely years and how he was raised by
a loving grand mother who inspired him to greatness.-
-
>> You listen to your grandma.-
-
>> There's a lot going on in this exhibit.-
You can hop into a simulated row boat an pretend you're rowing
out to a steam they're's going to take you to freedom.-
You can listen to music, you can listen to speeches in
Douglass' on words.-
You can even look at the simulated movies we've made, called
pepper's ghosts where an actor portrays somebody from Frederick
Douglass' life.-
There's a lot to do here besides just read and look.-
>> The exhibit gives special attention to the 25 years Douglass
lived in Rochester, considered by historians to be the most
significant of his career as a national reformer.-
It was during this period of time that he published
anti-slavery newspapers, coordinated underground railroad
activities and raised a family.-
-
>> This is one of America's greatest figures.-
And he spent his most productive years here in Rochester, an it
was important that this was the story that all different kinds
of learners could relate to.-
More than 200 volunteers have helped make this exhibit
possible.-
We started with audience surveys in which we asked people what
they would most like to see in a Douglass exhibits.-
They answered they wanted to hear his entire life story, they
wanted to walk in his shoes, they wanted to be able to have
interactive experiences here, and they wanted to learn more
about Douglass' leadership abilities.-
So this exhibit is really the direct result of the many voices
and the many hands that have helped to shape it and make it a
reality.-
-
>> We want your input on this program.-
Write us anytime at need to know at wwxi.org.-
Or call our response line anytime, the number is 258-0250.-
If politics is your passion, subscribe to our political
notebook, a column on the local political scene.-
Email us at politicalnotebook@wxxi.org.-
And tune into am 1370 each mon morning.-
Next week on "need to know" we look at Rochester's freedom
trail, Rochester's Douglass and the potential for Rochester to
market themselves as an attraction for African-American
history.-
Please join us then.-