Free Trade in Our Local Economy -- 29 August 2003

WATERSHED FOR THIS COUNTRY'S ENTRANCE INTO A WORLD ECONOMY.
THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1995.
IT MONITORS TRADE POLICIES BETWEEN NATIONS.
W.T.O. RECENTLY ACCEPTED CHINA INTO THE FOLD, AND WE HAVE
SEEN PROTESTS AT W.T.O. MEETINGS SUCH AS THE ONE IN SEATTLE
THREE YEARS AGO.
BY 2005 THE U.S. WILL BE PART OF A LARGER FREE TRADE ZONE.
THE FREE TRADE AREA OF AMERICAS.
THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S GOING TO STRETCH FROM THE BERING
STRAIT TO CAPE HORN.
THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT IN THE BUSINESS OF DOING
BUSINESS.
THOSE WHO RUN MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS LIKE XEROX AND
KODAK WORRY ABOUT BEING COMPETITIVE IN THIS NEW MARKETPLACE.
THOSE WHO WORRY -- THOSE WHO WORK IN ROCHESTER'S
MANUFACTURING SECTOR WORRY ABOUT THEIR JOBS GOING OVERSEAS.
THOSE IN GOVERNMENT WORRY THAT THE U.S. WON'T BE ABLE TO
COMPETE WITH OTHER COUNTRIES WHO DON'T TEAR DOWN THEIR TRADE
BARRIERS.
LISTEN FOR A MINUTE TO THE ANXIETY ABOUT FREE TRADE
EXPRESSED BY ONE CONGRESSMAN, REPUBLICAN JIM WALSH WHO
REPRESENTS SYRACUSE AS WELL AS EASTERN MONROE COUNTY.
>> THE CONCEPT OF THREE TRADE IS A RELATIVELY NEW CONCEPT.
COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE DEVELOPED LEGISLATION THAT
PROTECTS THEIR HOME INDUSTRIES.
THE EUROPEAN UNION SUBSIDIZES AGRICULTURE.

THE CHINESE SUBSIDIZE TO SUPPORT THEIR AGRICULTURE AND THEY
DON'T HAVE THE SAME RIGOROUS STANDARDS AGAINST PESTICIDES,
FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE DO, SO IT'S ALL BEING SORTED OUT.
MEANWHILE, OUR FARMERS ARE BEING HURT.
OUR MANUFACTURERS AND WORKERS -- THE COMPANIES ARE NOT BEING
HURT.
THEY'RE GOING OFFSHORE TO HIRE PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO HIRING
THEM HERE.
THIS IS SHAKING OUT RIGHT NOW, AND I THINK THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE AGGRESSIVE IN
PROTECTING ITS WORKERS.
>> I JUST THINK THAT THE WORLD IS CHANGING.
GLOBAL COMPETITION IS HERE.
CERTAIN COUNTRIES HAVE CERTAIN ADVANTAGES.
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE SURE IF THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE,
IT'S BECAUSE THEIR WORKERS ARE DOING A BETTER JOB OR THEY'RE
DOING A BETTER JOB PROTECTING THE ENVIRONMENT AND MAKING
BETTER PRODUCTS AND INCENTING QUALITY AND PRODUCTIVITY, NOT
USING THEIR CHEAP LABOR AND LACK OF REGULATION TO SUPPORT
THEIR BUSINESS, AND HURT OURS.
>> NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PROS AND CONS OF THIS NEW
ECONOMIC WORLD, AND ITS IMPACT ON ROCHESTER WITH OUR VERY
LEARNED PANEL.
DAVID REID ROCHESTER INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY PROFESSOR AND
DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS AND
ECONOMIC GROWTH.

JIM BERELONE, PRESIDENT OF THE ROCHESTER LABOR COUNCIL AND
AND JOE MORELLE, DEMOCRATIC STATE ASSEMBLYMAN FROM
IRONDEQUOIT WHO SITS ON THE JOB CREATION, COMMERCE AND
INDUSTRY COMMITTEE. THAT'S THE LONGEST COMMITTEE NAME IN
THE HISTORY OF COMMITTEES.
HOW ARE YOU ALL?
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE.
>> FIRST QUESTION, I WANT TO START WITH A COMMENT FROM
KODAK'S C.E.O. DAN CARP, IF I CAN.
HE GAVE THIS RIGHT AFTER THE ANNOUNCEMENTS.
IT'S IN WRITTEN FORM, RIGHT AFTER THE SECOND QUARTER
EARNINGS WERE ANNOUNCED AND THE NEWS OF THE LAYOFFS WERE
ANNOUNCED.
GLOBAL MARKETS REWARD COMPANIES THAT INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY,
REDUCE COSTS AND MOVE FAST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF MARKETPLACE
OPPORTUNITIES.
THIS IS THE BUSINESS REALITY.
HOW CAN KODAK NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CHEAPER LABOR IN ORDER
TO COMPETE ON A WORLDWIDE BASIS.
I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, MR. BERELONE FIRST.
HOW CAN THEY NOT DO THIS?
>> THEY CANNOT, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.
I THINK THE STATEMENT IS DISINGENUOUS.
THIS GLOBALIZATION JUST DID NOT HAPPEN OUT OF THIN AIR.
IT THERE WAS A VERY CONCERTED EFFORT LED BY COMPANIES LIKE

KODAK TO DEREGULATE AND GET RID OF PROTECTIVE TARIFFS
COUNTRY AFTER COUNTRY AFTER COUNTRY.
THE SITUATION EXISTS BECAUSE THEY CHANGED GOVERNMENTAL
POLICY TO MAKE IT EXIST.
HOW CAN KODAK NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE?
IF SLAVE LABOR WAS STILL LEGAL, WOULD WE SAY HOW CAN KODAK
NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SLAVE LABOR.
IF CHILD LABOR WAS STILL LEGAL IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN OUR
WORLD, WE HAVE 250 MILLION CHILDREN WHO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY
INSTEAD OF GO TO SCHOOL, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT TYPE OF THING TO BE COMPETITIVE?
NO.
THIS CONTINUES TO BE A RACE TO THE BOTTOM WITHOUT ANY
STANDARDS.
>> PROFESSOR REID, WOULD YOU COMMENT THAT AND LET ME ASK YOU
-- IT'S COMING, ISN'T IT?
GLOBALIZATION IS COMING WHETHER WE WANT IT OR NOT?
>> IT IS HERE.
WE CAN'T EXIST WITHOUT IT BECAUSE ALL OF THESE COMPANIES,
THESE BRANDS, THESE PRODUCTS THAT WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH, THEY
ALL COME FROM SUPPLY CHAINS WHICH IN PART OR IN TOTAL
INVOLVE INTERNATIONAL CONTRIBUTIONS FROM CHINA, FROM
MALAYSIA, FROM FRANCE, FROM GERMANY.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO BUY A PRODUCT WHICH DOESN'T HAVE FOREIGN
CONTENT.
>> THE SAME QUESTION, HOW COULD KODAK NOT GO WHERE THEY CAN

REDUCE EXPENSES, GET LABOR THAT MIGHT BE CHEAPER.
HOW CAN THEY NOT DO THIS?
>> WELL, HE'S RIGHT.
YOU HAVE TO DO IT.
KODAK HAS TO DO IT.
KODAK HAS BEEN RELATIVELY SUCCESSFUL IN DOING WHAT IT'S
DOING IN CHINA.
IT DID SOME RATHER SMART NEGOTIATION.
IT HAS SOMETHING LIKE 60% OF THE FILM MARKET IN CHINA.
AND THE CHINESE, SURPRISINGLY, ACTUALLY SHOOT MORE FILM THAN
THE JAPANESE EVER DID, SO THAT'S A GOOD COMMERCIAL DECISION.
HOWEVER, WHAT YOU THEN HAVE TO ASK IS ARE COMPANIES LIKE
KODAK BEING SUFFICIENTLY CREATIVE TO INSURE THAT HIGH
QUALITY, HIGH VALUE JOBS ARE REPLACED IN AREAS LIKE THIS TO
PLUG THE GAP THAT IS INEVITABLY GOING TO BE MADE BY THIS
CONSTANT DRIFT TO CHINA AND COUNTRIES LIKE IT.
>> PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS SESSION ABOUT WHETHER KODAK HAS
BEEN INNOVATIVE.
HAS KODAK BEEN ABLE TO REPLACE THOSE JOBS.
HAS ROCHESTER IN GENERAL BEEN INNOVATIVE ENOUGH TO ADAPT?
>> I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WHICH IS
OBVIOUSLY THE AREA THAT I'M INVOLVED IN, I DON'T THINK THAT
THE STATE HAS DONE ENOUGH IN COOPERATION WITH UNIVERSITIES
WITH INDUSTRY, WITH LABOR, TO DEVELOP AN AGENDA WHICH
PREPARES PEOPLE FOR THE MAD EARN WORKPLACE.
I THINK -- YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO DISAGREE WITH THE

C.E.O.'S OF COMPANIES THAT ARE COMPETING INTERNATIONALLY TO
TRY TO REDUCE COSTS BECAUSE SHAREHOLDERS HAVE MADE IT CLEAR
THROUGH SHAREHOLDER LAWSUITS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES
THAT THEY INTEND THE C.E.O.'S TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON THE
BOTTOM LINE.
SO, THEY'RE LESS APT WITH THE FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES TO
MAKE DECISIONS ON WHO OUGHT TO BE EMPLOYED WHERE IF THEY'RE
NOT LOOKING AT COSTS.
THE QUESTION IS AS NEW YORK TRANSITIONS FROM BASIC
MANUFACTURING OR IN SOME CASES IN THE ROCHESTER AREA ADVANCE
MANUFACTURING TO INFORMATION ECONOMY, ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO
PARTNER WITH EVERYONE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SKILL SETS OF
WORKERS INCUMBENT AND FUTURE ARE SUFFICIENT TO FILL THE JOBS
AND ADD MEANINGFUL VALUE TO THE ECONOMY.
I DON'T THINK WE HAVE DONE ENOUGH IN THAT REGARD.
>> LET ME JUST FOLLOW UP ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID AND LET ME
ALSO INTERJECT THIS.
KODAK WOULD PROBABLY SAY, HEY, IF WE DON'T COMPETE, WE WILL
GO AWAY.
THAT'S FAR MORE JOBS THAT WILL GO AWAY.
WE WILL GO AWAY.
>> I AGREE WITH THE PANEL THAT GLOBALIZATION IS HERE.
THERE NEEDS TO BE MINIMUM STANDARDS, LABOR STANDARDS.
IF YOU HAVE NO STANDARDS, TOTAL DEREGULATION BETWEEN
DEVELOPING COMPANIES AND INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS, WE WILL
CONTINUE TO SEE A RACE TO THE BOTTOM AND THE JOBS GOING ONE

WAY.
IN ORDER FOR GLOBALIZATION TO WORK FOR EVERYBODY, THE
PRINCIPLE IT IS HAS TO BE A TWO-WAY STREET.
RIGHT NOW, WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH CHINA, AND WHAT WE'RE
SEEING THROUGH AN EXTENT IN EUROPE IS THE HUGE TRADE
DEFICIT.
TEN YEARS AGO THE UNITED STATES IMPORTED $1.30 FOR EVERY
DOLLAR IT EXPORTED.
THAT'S ALMOST UP TO $2 NOW WITH THE $500 BILLION TRADE
DEFICIT.
UNITED STATES CANNOT KEEP THE GLOBAL ECONOMY GOING AT THE
PACE IT IS NOW BY INCREASING THEIR TRADE DEFICITS $50
BILLION TO $100 BILLION A YEAR.
IN THE PAST, THE IDEA BETWEEN GLOBALIZATION IS LABOR
INTENSIVE PRODUCTS LIKE CLOTHING AND TOYS WOULD BE DONE IN
THE DEVELOPING NATIONS, AND THOSE NATIONS WOULD USE THEIR
CASH SURPLUS TO IMPORT PHARMACEUTICALS AND THE REST.
THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.
THAT'S BEGINNING TO CHANGE.
>> PROFESSOR REID, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE INNOVATION
FACTOR, THERE HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH INNOVATION, WHY HASN'T
THERE TO DEVELOP THE PRODUCTS THAT WE COULD TRADE, THE
HIGHER END SUGGESTS, THE HIGHER END PRODUCTS.
WHY HASN'T THIS HAPPENED?
>> IT DOES HAPPEN.
I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH WHAT KEN SAID THERE.

I THINK IT HAS HAPPENED.
I THINK WHAT COMMONLY PEOPLE ARE NOT AWARE OF IS HOW QUICKLY
THESE FOREIGN COMPETITORS ACTUALLY LATCH ONTO NEW
TECHNOLOGIES, HOW QUICKLY THEY LEARN, AND WHAT SCARES ME IS
WHEN CHINA STARTS DEVELOPING BRANDS AND AT THE MOMENT, IT'S
THE MANUFACTURING WORKSHOPS OF THE WORLD.
WAIT UNTIL IT'S -- ITS OWN COMPANIES GET SUFFICIENTLY STRONG
AND EXPERT THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE BRANDS THAT PEOPLE WANT,
AND SIDES THAT ARE CHEAP AND THEN WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM.
>> CONGRESSMAN WALSH AGAIN IS CONCERNED ABOUT BUSINESS IN
HIS SYRACUSE REGION.
CARRIER CORPORATION EMPLOYS ABOUT 3,000 PEOPLE.
WHAT HE'S WORRIED ABOUT BASICALLY IS THEY'RE GOING TO CLOSE
THEIR PLANT THERE AND MOVE THOSE JOBS OVERSEAS.
HE'S PROPOSING A BILL THAT WOULD STRIKE AT CARRIER AS
COMPANIES, UNITED TECHNOLOGY OR U.T.C.
LOOK AT WHAT HE'S PROPOSING.
>> IF THEY'RE GOING TO BELONG TO THE WORLD TRADE
ORGANIZATION, THEN THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES.
THEY WANT TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
THEY WANT TO SELL INTO THE U.S. MARKET, BUT THEY WANT TO
PROTECT THEIR INDUSTRIES AT THE SAME TIME.
I HAVE A BILL THAT I HAVE PROPOSED HAS BEEN INTRO -- IT
HASN'T BEEN INTRODUCED YET, BUT IT'S PROPOSED NO THE CASE OF
CARRIER, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE U.T.C. CORPORATION, OVER 15% OF
SALES ARE TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

WHAT THE BILL SAYS IS THAT IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN 50% OF YOUR
EMPLOYEES IN THE U.S., THEN YOU CANNOT DO BUSINESS WITH THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ANYMORE.
>> PROFESSOR REID, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT OUGHT TO BE DOING?
>> I THINK THAT WILL PLAY WELL POLITICALLY.
WHAT HE IS ACTUALLY SUGGESTING, AND CERTAINLY, I HAVE LOOKED
AT THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION PROTOCOL ON THIS, AND THEY
ARE PURSUING AN ACTION OF TRANSPARENCY IN GOVERNMENT
PURCHASING.
THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF THE NEXT ROUND OF NEGOTIATIONS.
TRANSPARENCY IS GOOD, AND THEY DO ALLOW FOR THIS KIND OF
INITIATIVE.
MY SUSPICION, THOUGH, IS THAT THIS WOULD BE SMOTHERED AT A
HIGHER LEVEL.
I DON'T ACTUALLY SEE IT GETTING THERE.
>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT IN SOME RESPECTS RATHER THAN TRYING TO
REGULATE --
>> THAT'S NOT FREE TRADE, THEN, IS IT?
>> IT'S CLEARLY NOT FREE TRADE.
I THINK WHAT YOU WANT TO HAVE IS FREE TRADE AND FAIR TRADE.
I WAY I APPROACH SOME OF THIS, WE TRIED TO DO THIS AT STATE
LEGISLATURE IS CHANGE THE TAX POLICY OF THE STATE TO
ENCOURAGE INVESTMENT IN TERMS OF PAYROLL AND IN TERMS OF
PROPERTY, AND IN OTHER WORDS, NEW YORK RIGHT NOW TAXES
GLOBAL CORPORATIONS BASED ON A DISINCENTIVE.

THE MORE PAYROLL AND PROPERTY AND PEOPLE YOU PUT HERE, THE
HIGHER THE TAX BURDEN.
INSTEAD OF WHAT I WOULD HAVE IS THE REVERSE.
THE MORE YOU SELL INTO NEW YORK AND DON'T PUT PROPERTY AND
PAYROLL HERE, YOU DO A REVERSAL OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
IT'S PRO-INVESTMENT.
IT SAYS THAT YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT IN THE
MARKETPLACE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO REWARD YOU FOR PUTTING
PEOPLE TO WORK HERE IN NEW YORK.
>> THIS DOESN'T SOUND LIKE FREE TRADE.
>> THAT'S FREE.
YOU CAN MAKE A DECISION.
THE ARGUMENT IS FREE TRADE IS DRIVEN TOWARDS WHERE THERE'S
COST OR WHERE THERE'S A LACK OF COST OR WHERE YOU CAN DO
BETTER.
THAT'S WHEN I SAY WHEN IT COMES TO TAXING PEOPLE, IF YOU
CHOOSE NOT TO PUT PEOPLE IN NEW YORK, THAT'S FINE, BUT WE'RE
GOING TO TAX YOU AT A SLIGHTLY HIGHER RATE.
RIGHT NOW, WE DO THE REVERSE, WHICH IS CRAZY.
>> SHOULD THIS GOVERNMENT GET MORE INVOLVED OR TRY TO GET
MORE INVOLVED IN FREE TRADE POLICIES, TRYING TO INJECT A
POLITICAL OR SOCIAL POLICY OR AGENDA OR ETHOS IN FREE TRADE?
>> YES.
I MEAN, THIS IS A WORLDWIDE PHENOMENON.
IT'S NOT NEW, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT LABOR AND
OTHER INTEREST GROUPS HAVE COMPLETELY BEEN CUT OUT OF THE

NEGOTIATIONS.
THAT'S WHAT SEATTLE WAS ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, WHETHER THEY'RE
FARMERS OR WORKERS, THEY HAVE BEEN CUT OUT OF THE STANDARDS.
ANY REGULATION.
THEY'RE STILL BRINGING REGULATION OUT THERE.
YOU DON'T HEAR COMPANIES COMPLAIN ABOUT REGULATION WHEN THEY
GRAB $250 BILLION IN CORPORATE WELFARE FROM THE AMERICAN
TREASURY EVERY YEAR.
THAT'S NOT FREE TRADE, EITHER.
OR.
BAILOUT.
SO, THERE DOES NEED TO BE STANDARDS.
.
I CANNOT HELP THINKING THAT GLOBALIZATION IS JUST -- AND
DEREGULATION IS NEW WORDS OR WHAT WE -- FOR WHAT WE SAW AT
THE END OF THE 19TH CENTURY OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION,
FREE MARKET ECONOMY.
I BELIEVE IT WAS CALLED THE GUILDED AGE.
THERE WAS CHILD LABOR.
YOU DO NEED TO HAVE SOME STANDARDS.
>> MR. REID, THE TRADE NEGOTIATORS IN FORUMS LIKE THE
W.T.O., DO THEY THINK ABOUT THE LITTLE GUY, THE WORKER, THE
PERSON WORKING AT KODAK?
>> THEY TRY TO.
.
I GUESS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE STAKES ARE SO BIG THAT, REALLY, WHEN IT
ACTUALLY GETS DOWN TO IT, PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS GET HURT, AND
IT'S MOST UNFORTUNATE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SEE AN AREA WHERE
PEOPLE HAVE SEVERAL GENERATIONS LIVING IN IT, AND INDUSTRIES
WHICH AT ONE TIME THEY COULD DEPEND ON.
THESE INDUSTRIES GO AND THEY GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND UNLESS YOU FIND SOME OTHER RATIONALE FOR BEING IN THE
AREA, THE COMMUNITY DIES, AND IT'S VERY SAD.
>> IN MANY WAYS WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT AT THE BEGINNING
OF THE 20TH CENTURY, FAMILIES LIKE JIM'S AND MINE CAME FROM
OTHER COUNTRIES IN PURSUIT OF JOBS AND OPPORTUNITIES IN THE
UNITED STATES, BUT NOW THERE'S SUCH AN ABILITY OF -- AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR MOBILITY OF THE COMPANIES THAT THEY CAN SET
UP AND GO FIND CHEAP LABOR.
.
SO, WHAT YOU HAD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE LAST CENTURY,
PEOPLE MOVING TO THE UNITED STATES, MOBILITY, BUT MOBILITY
ON THE PART OF THE WORKER, NOW YOU SEE MOBILITY ON THE OTHER
DIRECTION, THE MOBILITY OF BUSINESSES TO MOVE WHERE THE
CHEAP LABOR IS.
THE DYNAMICS IN PLACE ARE DIFFERENT, BUT NOT DISSIMILAR OF
THINGS HAPPENING IN THE COURSE OF HUMANITY.
>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE UNEMPLOYED MANUFACTURING WORKER
WHEN HE'S LOOKING AT THIS.
HOW COULD YOU TELL THAT PERSON, YOU STILL HAVE TO PURSUE
FREE TRADE AND WE HAVE TO PURSUE THIS AND BE AN ACTIVE

PARTICIPANT IN GLOBALIZATION.
WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THAT WORKER?
>> I WOULD SAY AS A MATTER OF PUBLIC POLICY IS THAT YOU HAVE
TO CHANGE SKILL SETS OF WORKERS.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT EVERY INDIVIDUAL IS PART OF THE NEW
ECONOMY.
THERE'S PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO CONTINUE TO HAVE BASIC
MANUFACTURING, ADVANCED MANUFACTURING IN THE UNITED STATES.
IT'S NOT GOING AWAY ENTIRELY.
THERE IS A SEISMIC SHIFT HERE.
AS WE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT HOW WE HELP WORKERS, IT'S
VALUE-ADDED SKILLS IN ALLOWING THEM TO COMPETE IN THE
MARKETPLACE AS IT IS TO PUT UP BARRIERS THAT STOP JOBS THAT I THINK OVER TIME ARE GOING TO LOSE.
THE QUESTION IS FAIRNESS, AND I THINK THAT'S THE POINT THAT
JIM IS RAISING AS WE CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH GLOBALIZATION,
THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO BE AGGRESSIVE IN SAYING THAT WE
EXPECT IT TO BE A FAIR TREATMENT WHEN IT COMES TO THE -- YOU
KNOW, THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR
NOT CHINA IS ARTIFICIALLY PUTTING ITS CURRENCY RATES EQUAL
TO THE UNITED STATES.
IF THE UNITED STATES CURRENCY RISES OR LOWERS IN VALUE THAT
THE CHINESE CURRENCY GOES WITH IT, WHICH GIVES US NO
OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THAT DIFFERENT AND THAT COST -- THAT'S A
QUESTION WHETHER THE UNITED STATES OUGHT TO BE AGGRESSIVE.
>> INTERESTING POINT.

BUT THE THING IS WITH ALL OF THESE NEGOTIATIONS, YOU CANNOT
JUST CHERRY PICK AND SAY, ALL OF THIS HAS TO BE RIGHT FOR
THE UNITED STATES OR WHOEVER YOU ARE REPRESENTING.
TAKE THE CURRENCY TRUE.
IT MAY BE A BIT UNDERVALUED NOW, BUT BACK IN 1997, WE WERE
VERY GLAD THAT THE CHINESE CURRENCY WAS NOT DEVALUED,
BECAUSE THAT STOPPED A MASSIVE DECELERATION AND SPIRALING IN
ASIA.
WE HAD THE ASIAN CRASH.
WE HAVE TO LOOK OVER THE LONGER TIME.
>> I HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS LEFT.
I WANT TO ASK THE SAME QUESTION I ASKED JOE YOU TO, JIM.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE WORKER WHO'S ANGRY ABOUT THE WAY THAT
WE'RE INVOLVED, EVEN?
>> THAT LABOR NEEDS TO KEEP FIGHTING FOR BASIC FAIR
STANDARDS.
LABOR STANDARDS AND ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS, GLOBALIZATION,
IN ORDER FOR IT TO WORK NOT ONLY FOR AMERICANS BUT THE WHOLE
WORLD HAS TO BENEFIT EVERYBODY.
NOT JUST C.E.O.'S, NOT JUST INVESTORS WHO THE WAY INVESTORS
HAVE TAKEN A GOOD HIT UNDER GLOBALIZATION IF YOU THINK ABOUT
THE CORPORATE SCANDALS.
THE CURRENT ROUND OF REGULAR NATIONS AS PRIOR TO THE W.T.O.
IS TALKING ABOUT DEREGULATING AND ELIMINATING PUBLIC
MONOPOLIES SUCH AS POSTAL SERVICES AND WATER UTILITIES.
THERE NEEDS TO BEING AGAIN A MORE OPEN DISCUSSION, MORE

INCLUSIVE DISCUSSION FROM ALL PARTIES SUCH AS THE -- SO THAT
THE RULES ARE FAIR FOR EVERYONE.
>> I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO BE HERE TO
TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
THIS DISCUSSION IS FAR FROM OVER.
CONTINUE BY JOINING US ON THE WEB AT wxxi.org/ntk.
YOU CAN ALSO EMAIL US AT needtoknow@wxxi.org.

NOW WE OPEN UP THE BUSINESS SECTION WITH "THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."

>> 8 MILLION.
>> THAT'S A QUITE DISPARITY.
>> THAT IS.
>> WE HAVE ALWAYS DEFINED THAT TO SOME DEGREE, HAVEN'T WE?
>> WE HAVE DEFINED WHO QUALIFIES AND WHO DOESN'T IN LAW.
THIS IS ACTUALLY ADDING -- WHAT PROFESSIONS MIGHT BE ADDED?
>> WELL, IT'S MORE WHICH PROFESSIONS MIGHT BE TAKEN OUT.
AND THERE WOULD BE WHITE COLLAR -- ACCORDING TO LABOR
ACTIVISTS WHITE COLLAR PROFESSIONS, DENTAL HYGIENISTS,
PARALEGALS, REPORTERS, EDITORS.
VARIETY OF JOBS LIKE THAT.
MIGHT NOT QUALIFY BECAUSE THEY'RE ADDING AN INCOME TEST AT
THE UPPER END.
IF YOU MAKE MORE THAN $$65,000 A YEAR, YOU MIGHT NOT BE
GETTING OVERTIME IN THE FUTURE.
BEFORE IF YOU MADE UNDER $8,000 A YEAR, YOU COULDN'T
QUALIFY.
THEY MOVE THE TEST UP TO $22,000 NOW.
>> THOSE AGAINST THIS, AND I WOULD ASSUME LABOR IS PROBABLY
ON THAT SIDE, BUT THOSE AGAINST THIS ALSO THINK THERE ARE
OTHER PROFESSIONS THAT I THINK ARE GOING TO BE LUMPED IN.
POLICE, FIRE.
>> YES.
>> E.M.T.'S.
>> FIRE POLICE.
THEY'RE SAYING THERE'S FAR MORE THAT MIGHT BE ADDED IN.

I SUPPOSE THAT MIGHT BE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT.
DOES THIS MANDATE TO COMPANIES -- DO THIS ORDER COMPANIES TO
FOLLOW THE RULE, THE LAW, OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT'S THERE
AND COMPANIES NEED TO FOLLOW IT.
>> IT'S THERE AND THEY NEED TO FOLLOW IT AND CLASSIFY THE
JOBS INTO CATEGORIES, EXEMPT OR NON-EXEMPT.
IT'S UP TO THEM TO INTERPRET THE REGULATIONS ACCORDING TO
THE WAY THEY DESCRIBE THEIR JOBS.
>> ONE, THEY CAN INTERPRET THIS AND TWO, THERE'S NOT ANY
PENALTIES IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW EXACTLY.
IT'S MORE OF AN INTERPRETATION BY A COMPANY, CORRECT?
>> CORRECT.
>> WHAT'S THE WORRY?
MAYBE COMPANIES WON'T CHANGE AT ALL?
>> THAT'S WHAT MEMBERS OF THE ROCHESTER BUSINESS ALLIANCE
ARE SAYING TO THE FOLKS THERE THAT IS THAT THEY DON'T
ANTICIPATE A LOT OF RECLASSIFICATIONS GOING ON AND THE
POSITIVE THAT THEY SEE IN IT IS THAT IT SIMPLIFIES THE
QUALIFICATION TEST AND IT MAKES THINGS MORE EFFICIENT FOR
THEM.
THAT'S THE PRO SIDE FOR THEM.
>> HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO DISCERN HOW THE LOCAL CONGRESSIONAL
DELEGATION FEELS ABOUT THIS?
>> YES.
WELL, SENATORS SCHUMER AND CLINTON ARE BOTH VERY OPPOSED TO
IT.

>> VERY OPPOSED.
>> THEY'RE GOING TO BE LEADING A MOVEMENT TO TRY TO BLOCK
THE REGULATIONS NEXT WEEK.
OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S VERY POLARIZED.
ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE OF THE AISLE ARE AGAINST AND THE
REPUBLICANS ARE FOR.
>> WITH THE REPUBLICANS IN CONTROL, THIS MEANS IT'S PROBABLY
GOING 0 GET THROUGH, I'M GUESSING?
>> YES, ALTHOUGH IT'S CLOSE.
A SIMILAR MEASURE CAME UP IN THE HOUSE AND IT WAS STOPPED BY
ABOUT THREE VOTES.
THAT STOPPED THE MEASURE -- COST THE MEASURE TO STOP THE
REGULATION.
IT'S A MIXTURE OF LANGUAGE THERE.
>> WE HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT AND I HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE
FACT THAT GAS PRICES HIT A NEW RECORD.
YOU'RE NOT TRAVELING THEN?
>> WITH YOUNG KIDS, NO.
>> YEAH, RIGHT.
WHAT IS THE -- WHAT'S PUSHING THE GAS PRICES TO GO UP?
IS THERE ANY READ ON IT?
WAS IT THE POWER OUTAGES, WAS IT THE SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE
EAST?
DOES ANYBODY KNOW?
>> I'M NOT SURE THAT ANYBODY REALLY KNOWS.
IT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT NOW THERE'S ANY STOP TO IT.

IT DOES HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT DOWN THE ROAD AS CORPORATIONS
SPEND MORE FOR ENERGY AND WHO KNOWS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.
THIS CURRENT RECESSION STARTED WITH A SIMILAR BUMP-UP IN
ENERGY PRICES.
YOU HAVE TO WATCH IT.
THANK YOU FOR BEING US WITH.
WE WANT TO GIVE YOU ONE MORE BIT OF STORY WE HAVE FOR YOU.
FREE TRADE OVER THE BORDERS.
IT'S ONE WAY OF LINKING SOCIETIES.
WE WANT TO LOOK AT ANOTHER.
IMMIGRATION TO THE COUNTRY, SINCE 9-11 OUR BORDERS ARE A BIT
MORE CON TRAINED, YET THEY REMAIN THE MOST OPEN IN THE
WORLD.
TONIGHT WE WILL BEGIN AN OCCASIONAL SERIES THAT LOOKS AT
THOSE WHO HAVE COME FROM OTHER LANDS TO WORK AND LIVE IN
ROCHESTER.
WE CALL THIS SERIES, SIMPLY, "OUR STORIES" TONIGHT, "NEED TO
KNOW" ALICIA CLAUSSELL CONTINUE TO REMEMBER WHERE THEY CAME
FROM BY GIVING BACK TO THEIR HOMELAND.
>> IT'S A COMMON GOAL FOR THESE NEW AMERICANS, TO WORK HARD
IN THE U.S. TO SEND MONEY BACK HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES.
ISIDRO ORTIZ IS A 23-YEAR-OLD MIGRANT WORKER IN BROCKPORT, NEW YORK, WHO SENDS MONEY TO HIS HOME IN MEXICO TO HELP HIS
FAMILY WITH BASIC NEEDS LIKE FOOD AND MEDICINE FOR HIS
AILING MOTHER.
>> I'M HERE BECAUSE OF HOW HARD IT IS IN MEXICO.

MEXICO IS A VERY POOR COUNTRY, AND I AM HERE TO HELP MY
PARENTS.
I'M SOLELY HERE TO HELP MY PARENTS WHO HELPED ME.
I WANT THEM TO BE PROUD OF ME AS I AM PROUD OF THEM.
THE WORK I DO IS HARD.
BUT I DO THE WORK FOR MY PARENTS.
IT DOESN'T MATTER -- I HAVE TO DO THE WORK.
I DO IT FOR THEM.
>> ISIDRO'S STORY IS LIKE THE STORY OF MANY IMMIGRANTS, MUCH
LIKE THAT OF THE SIXTH SECTION.
IT'S A STORY ABOUT COMMUNITY, AND COMING TOGETHER TO BUILD A
FUTURE FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.
BEING SO FAR AWAY FROM HOME, YET MAKING A DIFFERENCE EVERY
DAY.
>> MY DAD IS AN IMMIGRANT, AND AS I GREW UP, I WATCHED HIM
MAINTAIN A CONNECTION TO A PLACE THAT HE LEFT BEHIND.
SO, WHEN I LEARNED THAT ALL OF -- ALL ACROSS AMERICA THERE
WERE GROUPS OF IMMIGRANTS THAT WERE MAINTAINING A CONNECTION
TO THE PLACE THEY LEFT BEHIND, BUT NOT JUST BY MAKING A
PHONE CALL, NOT JUST BY WATCHING IT ON TV, BUT BY
ORGANIZING, RAISING MONEY, AND SENDING IT BACK IN ORDER TO
KIND OF RESCUE THESE ECONOMIES THAT THEY HAD TO ABANDON,
THAT THAT STORY DREW ME IN, IT EXCITED ME AND I SAID TO
MYSELF, THIS IS A NEW AMERICAN DREAM, AND THIS IS THE STORY
THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD.
[ SPEAKING SPANISH ]

[ SPEAKING SPANISH ]
>> ISIDRO HAS HEARD THE STORY OF THE SIXTH SECTION IN
NEWBERG AND HOPES TO SOMEDAY BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE AS WELL.
FOR NOW, HE TELLS US ABOUT OTHER WAYS THESE IMMIGRANTS HELP
EACH OTHER TRANSITION TO LIFE IN AMERICA.
>> WE HELP EACH OTHER OUT.
IF SOMEONE HAS AN ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING, WE ALL HELP EITHER
BY TAKING HIM TO THE HOSPITAL OR PAYING THE HOSPITAL BILL.
WE HELP ONE ANOTHER DO THOSE THINGS WHEN NEEDED.
HELP IS NEVER A PROBLEM.
ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE JUST CROSSES THE BORDER FROM MEXICO
WITH NO MONEY OR A PLACE TO LIVE.
WE GIVE THEM A PLACE TO LIVE, AND WE DO NOT NEED TO PAY US
RENT OR ELECTRICITY, OR FOOD.
.
THEY DON'T NEED TO PAY FOR ANYTHING.
ONCE THEY BEGIN WORKING AND ARE ABLE TO PAY, BUT NOT BEFORE
THEY ARE ON THEIR FEET.
>> NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS.
THAT'S HOW THE UNION IN NEWBERG BUILDS A BASEBALL STADIUM IN
MEXICO.
[ SPEAKING SPANISH ]
>> THE DOCUMENTARY, THE SIXTH SECTION, WILL AIR THIS TUESDAY
ON WXXI.
ANOTHER PROGRAMMING NOTE, WE INVITE YOU TO JOIN A ONE OF A
KIND PERSPECTIVE WITH KURT SMITH.

HE EXPLORES THE FINGER LAKES AND NIAGARA FALLS.
NEXT WEEK ON "NEED TO KNOW," WE TALK ABOUT THE PRIMARY
ELECTIONS JUST BEFORE THE POLLS OPEN.
PLEASE JOIN US.