The Older Unemployed -- 20 February 2003

>> Just ahead on "Need To Know" -- Rochester leaders have been
vocal about keeping young people here, making sure that job
opportunities are available for the young.-
But what about the seasoned Rochester worker who has lost a
position?-
How focused is our community on keeping these older unemployed
from leaving to find work?-
We'll explore that tonight.-
Also, we'll have the "The Business Section with the Democrat
and Chronicle" next on "Need To Know."-
-
>> I think you're kind of in a way go through life thinking
that's going to happen to the other people, that's not going to
happen here, and then it happens.-
[CAPTIONING MADE POSSIBLE BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION]
Captioned by the National-
Captioning Institute-
--www.ncicap.org-- -
>> Thank you for joining us.-
I'm Michael Caputo.-
Governor George Pataki was in town this weak to stump for his
budget plan.-
He told a group of business leaders that the choice was clear
-- raise taxes or create jobs.-
Whether you agree with that argument or not, Pataki did not shy
away from the most pressing problem in the region-- job
creation.-
And he also stated the obvious -- that Rochester and most of
New York State are seeing more people out of work.-
In the past year, the Rochester area lost about 5600
private-sector jobs, a decline of 1.2%, the highest among
upsate metropolitan areas.-
The losses can be pegged to the manufacturing sector, and that
can be linked to the layoffs at places like Kodak and Xerox.-
Talk to some who are out of work, and they'll tell you the
area's ability to absorb those job losses is being strained.-
According to a network support group of displaced workers, a a
great many of its members who are pounding the pavement were
employed as program managers, software developers, human
resource experts, finance experts.-
So, it's the worker with the experience, with accomplishments,
with a commitment to the region who must come to grips with a
new reality.-
"Need To Know's" Matt Cummings introduces us to one man making
one tough transition.-
-
>> Oh.-
-
>> Bert Koenig of freast was among the Xerox employees who were
laid off last November 19.-
He has an interesting way of referring to the job loss.-
-
>> There's a whole camaraderie, you know, November 19, class of
November 19, so a bunch of us that graduated on that day.-
I think it was like 500 on that day.-
-
>> "graduating" from Xerox meant losing his $80,000-a-year
salary and the security that went with it.-
Once Koenig split his time between family and work.-
Now he divides his time between family and looking for work.-
-
>> When you have a normal day job, you have a routine you go
to, routine in the morning, you go to work, you come home, and
your life has a certain routine to it.-
When you are looking for a job, it becomes more fluid, becomes
a matter of I have a half-hour now, that's the time to look for
some other opportunities, make some phone calls.-
It's a matter of everything becomes more meshed with family.-
So, you have to balance it more.-
It's an ongoing activity of family activities, job-searching
activities, it's more 24 hours.-
-
>> Koenig is far from the only seasoned experienced worker
looking for a job.-
A local group has sprung up that uses networking techniques to
try and find job opportunities for its unemployed
opportunities.-
The August group's co-funder is Mike Mazzochetti.-
-
>> 90% of our 400 members are 40 years old plus.-
So, a common profile is leaders who have been making key
decisions, have been at their companies for 20-plus years.-
Kodak, Xerox, for 20-plus years, some of them.-
And they have been the folks involved in our commuvente, those
volunteering, doing good things, but now after enjoying a
quality of life and still want to stay and enjoy that quality
of life, they have to take another investment in their
community to help change things.-
-
>> more seasoned workers are out of work because, Mazzochetti
believes, Rochester has reached its threshold for absorbing
laid-off employees.-
Those from the big three -- Kodak, Xerox, and Bausch and Lomb.-
Most of Rochester's economic development community has been
focused on keeping the area's college graduates and young young
20-something workers right here in Rochester.-
However, some searching for employment say the community's real
concern ought to be the loss of highly skilled, more
experienced older workers.-
Kent Gardner of the center for governmental research says
certain employers are seeking the younger worker, forcing the
more experienced employee to retool to remain valuable.-
-
>> There are certain fields where older workers are at risk,
information technology certainly one of those.-
The marketplace in information technology has been changing so
rapidly that unfortunately people who are older, who receive
their I.T. training a long time ago, find their skills are
perhaps not as desirable as the skills of people who just came
out of college.-
And that's very difficult for people to accept.-
-
>> But in most fields, companies, you know, make a pretty
rational calculus about the values the oler workers bring to
them.-
-
>> Mazzochetti agrees that some white-collar Rochester workers
became too complacent in the 1990's.-
-
>> It's not how can I find my next job.-
Today it's who do I know that has influence?-
What information is critical for redevelopment in the area I
need to partner and collaborate with?-
We need to create a culture of collaboration in our area, and I
think people are seeing that.-
Yeah, they were a little complacent, saying, gee, once I get to
that 25-year at Kodak, my pension kicks in and I'll ride it
out.-
Maybe there was an opportunity missed to go elsewhere.-
They got caught up in that.-
-
>> Koenig is not complay sent, nor is we without credentials --
both a bachelor and masters degree from R.I.T., 20-plus years
combined experience between Kodak and Xerox.-
Six patents to his name.-
But it's not enough.-
Though he attends a power networking meeting with the August
group, a chance to swap leads and have others review his
resume.-
Then it's time to make a followup call to a friend at Johnson &
Johnson.-
Then more e-mailing to other contacts.-
All with an eye at getting a foot in the door.-
-
>> I'll call and see if he's got the reply back from Johnson &
Johnson, and my objective is to get an interview, at least a
face to face and be able to articulate my skill, because the
resume is a two-page document which can give you an idea of
what that person is, but I need the interview that helps you
articulate those skills and abilities.-
The main goal here is to be able to have them feel comfortable
enough with me, offering me a position.-
-
>> The Koenig family is adjusting to Bert's situation.-
His 60-day severance package from Xerox ended in mid January.-
His wife, Linda, works as a part-time paralegal at Kodak.-
The family is adjusting to Bert's situation and buys into her
health coverage insurance at the cost of about $400 a month.-
Linda looked into going fulltime but was told she wouldn't be
able to return to part-time once Bert found fulltime work.-
So for now, Linda's salary and Bert's unemployment benefits are
their sole sources of income.-
Forcing them into a new family budget, a tough adjustment.-
-
>> I think perhaps maybe clothing, we have not bought clothing
lately, haven't gone out to dinner.-
We stay home now, we don't go out.-
I think the one family outing we had was on Martin Luther King
day we went to the movies, movies 10 and all four of us cost
$2.-
You look at those opportunities now to kind of, you know,
maintain your economic abilities.-
-
>> And I think you're kind of in a way -- go through life
thinking that's going to happen to the other people.-
That's not going to happen here.-
And then it happens.-
It's like the bomb drops.-
And I think that's where you start with the grieving process,
with the denial first, you know, oh, is this really happening?-
And then it moves into the anger, why did this happen?-
-
>> Koenig is determined not to leave Rochester, to find work
here.-
But as his search continues, reality creeps in.-
-
>> Not so much trapped as maybe more realistic, become more
realistic and you open up your view of the opportunities.-
Sure, it'd be great to stay in Rochester and be a lot easier on
the fam hi if you stayed in Rochester, but if we move, we'd
deal with it.-
We wouldn't be the first family to have to move cross-country.-
-
>> The 31,400 people who were unemployed in the Rochester
region at the end of year 2002 is about 2,200 more than it was
the same time a year earlier.-
We steer the conversation to what it will take for these older
unemployed to get back to work.-
With us in the studio, Greg Taylor, co-founder of the August
group, Sandra Parker, president of the Rochester business
alliance.-
Thank you both for being here.-
Greg, let me start right off the bat with you, if I can.-
Bert Koenig says he wants to stay in Rochester.-
But it's getting harder to do so.-
How many people do you think are in his shoes, have the
experience and are looking to leave?-
-
>> There are too many.-
That's it.-
Looking to leave, no.-
We're Rochesterians.-
We want to stay here.-
The only people who might entertain the idea of leaving were
brought in by Kodak.-
-
>> Sandy, I've talked to a few who say, look, I've got the
skills, I like what I'm doing.-
I can't do it here.-
I'm going to shop around elsewhere.-
Do you think that's coming up on "Need To Know's" -- is that
something that concerns people in Rochester, that they're going
to, you know, like a brain drain?-
-
>> I think a person who's been out of work for a significant
period of time -- and "significant" depends on an individual's
circumstance, and I have to agree with Greg, but for the most
part we see people wanting to see here.-
But there comes a point in time where reality does set in and
it's simply -- it becomes a situation that if you need to find
work, you're going to look outside the area.-
So, yes, it is a brain drain, but the situation is dynamic.-
You're going to have people that leave and people who come
back.-
As we lose people, we also find folks who have left the
Rochester area for other employment opportunities who then give
us a call and say, we want to come back.-
Are there opportunities here?-
-
>> There's a concerted effort to keeping the young here.-
Should there be a concerted effort to keeping the older,
experienced worker here and is there one?-
-
>> Absolutely.-
The effort needs to be on both fronts.-
We need the full range of skill sets and experiences in this
community if we're going to grow jobs.-
The main focus for oural leaders and our business leaders needs
to be to get more jobs in this area, either new jobs coming in
or growing jobs that are already here.-
-
>> What should they do?-
What should governmental leaders do?-
What should their tack be?-
-
>> I don't know that we have to push it all onto government.-
I think that a lot of this has to be personal resolve.-
It has to be an entrepreneurial spirit, that we really have to
cultivate in the area.-
It has to be a collaborative effort.-
It has to be existing business.-
It has to be venture capital.-
We need to keep the money that's in Rochester, in Rochester to
feed Rochester and bring more from outside.-
I think we have to cultivate the entrepreneurial spirit.-
-
>> I totally agree with Greg.-
I don't think you can lay that responsibility totally on
government.-
And I think one of the new initiatives that has recently gotten
up and running this past year is greater Rochester enterprise,
which is a prime example of the public and private sector
coming together really aimed at marketing the region with the
end result of bringing new venture money into the area to help
start-ups, to help grow existing employers here, and to market
our region to other companies outside the region.-
-
>> Look, this is a new -- this is a new phenomenon here, what
we have going on.-
Rochester was very proud of saying we can absorb the layoffs of
the big three.-
It doesn't seem to be happening right now.-
Is there being enough done, would you say, to get those people
retrained, to go and get at those folks and get them -- and I'm
talking about the larger community, the larger leadership.-
Is there enough being done?-
-
>> I would answer that, first, that I don't know that the
community knows how big the problem is.-
You can talk to 31,000, that's going to the war memorial three
times for a visual rs and that doesn't count everybody.-
-
>> What do you mean by that?-
-
>> Unemployment counts those receiving unemployment checks.-
If you're on company severance or you've used our unemployment
benefits you no longer count.-
So many people in the August group have exhausted their
benefits.-
So, I would hazard to say that 5.5 might be closer to 9.8,
11.2, because we don't get to count everybody.-
If you know that the number is much larger because you have a
limitation on what we can count as a system, it's not a
deception but the truth.-
-
>> Would you agree with that?-
Is it more than 5.5?-
-
>> I certainly agree it's more than 5.5 because you have a
population of people, as Greg has said, who have become
discouraged and they're no longer looking and because they're
no longer looking, they're no longer being counted.-
I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it's 9.9% or 11%.-
I do think that the problem is one that concerns everyone, and
I think the training and retraining issue is an area that, as
you look at what training dollars are available to this
community through the state or through the fed, we have to make
sure that we develop training programs that are specifically
aimed at helping people gain the skill set that enables them to
find jobs.-
So, people need to be assessed and then directed into training
programs where there's jobs available.-
-
>> That's -- we just tried to address some needs we thought the
Rochester work investment act might enable, and because it's a
federal program, it's real difficult to delegate the dollars.-
We encourage -- when you get oriented as an August group
member, you're directed to go to Rochester works, and we have
people aware of that.-
But very few people can get into the training programs,
especially the technology people because technology -- it's
hard to encourage technology training now because there's not
growth in the sector.-
-
>> I want to get back at something you were saying before,
though, that -- am I right?-
Did I hear you right?-
You said you don't think Rochester understands the problem
yet.-
-
>> I don't think they understand the size of it.-
If you're working, I think it's still very much a conventional,
well, just go get a job.-
A lot of our members kind of carry that burden of not being
employed and are perceived as losers and what's wrong with
you?-
It's a challenge.-
There's not a lot of opportunity out there right now.-
And it's not just Rochester.-
It's not just a Rochester problem.-
-
>> One of the things I would encourage, because I will bet that
every person employed or unemployed knows someone who is
unemployed right now because the problem has become so
widespread.-
And certainly I know in my circle of acquaintances, there are
several folks who are unemployed, and these are people that are
highly talented, highly skilled.-
And we're dealing now with a problem of people who are not the
poor performers, are people who have been high performers
within their former companies who have just because of economic
downturns have found themselves out of work.-
And the best way and one of the great resources through the
August group, still the strongest way for people to become
re-employed is the networking opportunities.-
Get out there, meet, talk to whoever you can, tell your story,
and try to connect up with two or three more people after that
conversation.-
-
>> I want to bring up -- I actually heard somebody tell me
about networking.-
The comment was, you know, it used to be it wasn't who you
knew, it was your qualifications that got you the job.-
Almost lamenting the fact that now it's who you know.-
How do you see that situation?-
Networking is your mantra, isn't it?-
-
>> It's all about networking.-
That's our mantra.-
The second one is give to get.-
We have to go out to give to others to help them find their
work and let it come back to us.-
So, we have two.-
75% of jobs are found through someone who knew someone who knew
someone who knew someone.-
That's networking.-
2%, 3%, are found in the Internet.-
We meet four times a week, eight different meeting sites,
Monday through Thursday there's a place to network and build
the skills you need.-
-
>> And you've been doing it for -- -
>> I do a lot of networking, and I have to tell you when I have
someone who comes and meets with me, they meet with me because
they're looking for that next lair of -- layer of people they
can network with.-
I'll spend time with them, give them some name, and feel free,
when you give this company or person a call, tell them you got
the referral from me.-
That's networking.-
It's building the personal connections people have in the
community, and it Cascades down.-
If there's a pozz sieve out of this -- positive out of this
current environment that I'm seeing, people are willing to
spend time with people who are unemployed, are willing to
listen to them, are willing to give them advice and willing to
give them that next name that perhaps might very well need to
that job.-
-
>> Greg, I want to ask you, are employers not hiring older
workers?-
Are they gravitating toward the younger workers?-
-
>> I think the global economy, corporations in business to make
money, they have to make affordable decisions.-
I don't think it has anything to do with age.-
I think it has to do with income.-
I think there's a challenge with supply that an experienced
person might not accept a lower income and stay for a while.-
So, there's a tentative offer or a reluctance to make an offer
to someone with 10 years' experience.-
-
>> What do you think about it?-
-
>> Well, I think one of the things we're seeing is that people
who are coming out of 20, 30 years of a large employer are
probably used to a pretty hefty salary.-
They come out in the market.-
They want to stay in Rochester, so just as the person that you
interview -- they become more realistic in terms of what it is
they're willing to accept.-
They're willing to give on some things in order to stay in the
Rochester area.-
So, I think there is a tradeoff there.-
The supply of labor in the market right now will work to drive
wages down.-
You've got more people than you have jobs, more qualified.-
-
>> We've seen in our group -- we poll data together.-
It's not unusual for 25% to 30%.-
-
>> Anybody who's watching who is unemployed or underemployed,
just give them a quick message, if you can, Greg.-
-
>> It's all about networking.-
Give to get.-
Help someone else in their search.-
Be supportive.-
-
>> Echo.-
Keep pounding the pavement.-
Don't get discouraged.-
Don't get tired of the networking process.-
It's probably the one that will work.-
-
>> It's the way to -- in fact, networking while you're working
probably isn't a bad idea either these days, is it?-
-
>> That's right.-
Keep the connections in place.-
-
>> Most of work is during the day.-
We now network during the evening as well.-
-
>> I guess, you know, there's a cradle-to-grave, Kodak will
take care of you.-
That's gone.-
-
>> Gone.-
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>> Thank you for being here.-
The discussion need not end here.-
Log on to our website, www.wxxi.org/ntk.-
For politics and government news, visit www.NYcitizens.org.-

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH THE "THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."

this is David Tyler, business reporter for the "Democrat and
Chronicle" and, Dave, I'm a homeowner.-
Earlier this week you made a report and said -- I think I got
this right -- the value of the home when adjusted for inflation
in Rochester actually dipped by 5% over the last 20 years?-
-
>> The past 30 years, actually.-
-
>> What's going on here?-
-
>> Well, there are several things going on.-
According to the Realtors I've talked to and some of the
experts on this issue, Rochester home values have been steady
for years, and part of that, when you factor in inflation in
other places, that makes the price drop.-
Also, there aren't the same kind of land pressures in Rochester
that you would see in a more builtout area like a San Francisco
or a Boston where, if you adjust for inflation, the values have
gone up 100% over that same time.-
-
>> We hear about sprawl and the effects of it, but we're still
not nearly built up or down.-
I guess that's what this suggests.-
-
>> That's true.-
One Realtor thinks Rochester is half as builtout as it could
be.-
-
>> Really?-
>> Yes.-
-
>> Like I said, I'm a homeowner.-
Not the most thrilling news in the world.-
But on the flip side, it's got to be good news for people who
are looking.-
-
>> It's great news for people who are looking and not
necessarily terrible news for people who already own a home.-
You still get the benefits of your tax write-offs through your
mortgage interest and through your property taxes as well.-
And it's one of the few investments that's truly almost
tax-free.-
-
>> Tell me why Rochester doesn't market the fact of
affordability as much as it does.-
Or do you think Rochester is getting in the swing of maybe
marketing itself, hey, maybe this is the place you can buy a
home, a nice home, a big home?-
-
>> I think you're starting to see that.-
The folks putting together the Rochester made for living
campaign have mentioned that in their advertisements and the
Realtors association in town will forever trumpet the
affordability of Rochester homes.-
-
>> It always shocked me we never took advantage like that.-
And we have a commute of five minutes and you'll never get
stuck in traffic.-
Same thing.-
You folks talked to the center for excellence C.E.O.'s Duncan
Moore.-
He talked about some of the initial projects they'll be
starting up over there.-
Tell me about the camera pill.-
-
>> This is fascinating stuff.-
Scary stuff as well.-
But one of the projects Dave embarked on for a coalition of
universities around the state led actually by ccny and New York
City is to shrink a camera into a pill size.-
Ite already been done in part, but the trick now is to make it
more reliable and make it easier for doctors to use the
information.-
Duncan Moore was saying they can get about 50,000 pictures out
of the current model of the pill camera, but they want to be
able to make it easier for the doctors to see which pictures
they need to use.-
To shrink that equipment down to pill size is their next
challenge.-
It's about the size of a softball right now.-
The next goal is a hardball.-
-
>> Great.-
-
>> Tough to swallow.-
-
>> But obviously the real goal is to perfect this, create jobs
here with this.-
Were there other projects he talked about?-
-
>> They are also talking with NASA, interestingly.-
A lot of their funding comes from NASA.-
They get about $4.5 million this year from the Glenn research
center in Cleveland.-
And in the wake of the Columbia disaster, there's been a lot of
some of the temperature-sensing abilities that hopefully the
center of excellence can provide.-
They are in the early stages of discussing work on that.-
-
>> Wow.-
Where are they right now?-
Where is this project?-
-
>> It's still in the early stages.-
This year will be spent getting the center up and running and
they hope to have about 40 people employed there by the end of
the year.-
They'll be spending about $15 million to refit an old Xerox
plavent in Canandaigua that will be the center's home.-
-
>> I wanted to touch on briefly the county of Monroe industrial
development agency, comida, they're going after a company that
used to exist, I guess.-
Tell me about that situation.-
-
>> This week the board voted to ask their attorney to go after
them to repay about $70,000 in incentives the board feels
they're owed.-
The company was bought out and left here in early 2001 when the
new owners decided to consolidate.-
And the project goes back to about 1990-91.-
-
>> So, comida is still following through on trying to get tax
breaks to create jobs?-
-
>> This is one of the mantras of the chairman.-
He wants to see increased responsibility and accountability
from the companies they give incentives to.-
-