Redistricting -- 16 June 2002

>> Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," REDISTRICTING: THE PAINFUL PROCESS CONTINUES. NEW YORK STATE'S EFFORT TO ELIMINATE TWO CONGRESSIONAL SEATS CARVES MONROE COUNTY INTO FOUR DISTRICTS AND FORCES TWO LOCAL CONGRESSPEOPLE INTO A DISTRICT THAT INCLUDES ROCHESTER AND BUFFALO. ALSO ON THIS PROGRAM, WE'LL DISCUSS THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE DEATH OF A 14-YEAR-OLD WHO WAS SHOT AND KILLED BY ROCHESTER POLICE EARLIER THIS WEEK. AND ELLEN ROSEN IS HERE FOR THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS SECTION" WITH THE "DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE." THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW."

>> Louise Slaughter: I'M BAFFLED TO THIS MOMENT. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND AND WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT WILL NEVER MAKE SENSE TO ME WHY THE LEGISLATURE DID WHAT THEY DID TO WESTERN NEW YORK.

>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.

>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. WHILE POLITICS HAS BEEN THE LEADING STORY IN THE NEWS THIS WEEK, ONE POLICE STORY IS STILL DEVELOPING AND WILL BE FOLLOWED CLOSELY FOR MONTHS TO COME. EARLY MONDAY MORNING, ROCHESTER POLICE SHOT AND KILLED A 14-YEAR-OLD BOY WHO THEY SAY WAS DRIVING A STOLEN CAR AND ATTEMPTING TO RUN DOWN AN OFFICER. THE CASE IS GOING TO A GRAND JURY. THE TEENAGER'S FAMILY IS VOWING TO HOLD THE OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE, AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SAYS, BY LAW, THE SHOOTING WAS JUSTIFIED. JOINING US IN STUDIO TO GIVE US AN UPDATE OF WHERE THIS STORY IS GOING IS AM 1370'S BUD LOWELL. BUD, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> Bud Lowell: MY PLEASURE, GARY. THE WITNESSES WERE STILL BEING INTERVIEWED ON WEDNESDAY; FACTS WERE STILL BEING ASCERTAINED. BUT IT'S PRETTY MUCH AS YOU SAID. WE'RE NOW INTO THE REACTION STAGE OF THIS STORY, AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF POWERFUL REACTIONS. FIRST OF ALL, THE FAMILY OF THE YOUNG MAN WHO DIED HAS GOTTEN RATHER UPSET, IN FACT STOPPED TALKING WITH US, BECAUSE THEY APPARENTLY FEEL THEY HAVE BEEN PORTRAYED RATHER BADLY, AS THE BOY'S AUNT PUT IT, AS A FAMILY WHO WOULD LET THE KID BE OUT UNTIL 3 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. SHE SAYS IN FACT THEY WERE WORKING ALL WEEKEND TRYING TO FIND HIM AFTER HE FAILED TO COME HOME FROM SCHOOL ON FRIDAY, HAD ACTUALLY CALLED THE POLICE AND ASKED FOR THEIR HELP. THE MOTHER HAD, IN FACT, BEEN PREPARED TO GO DOWN MONDAY MORNING TO THE FAMILY COURT AND SIGN A PIN'S PETITION, TO BASICALLY PUT HIM IN THE JUVENILE --

>> Gary Walker: A PERSON IN NEED OF SUPERVISION.

>> Bud Lowell: A PERSON IN NEED OF SUPERVISION. AND SHE TWICE AT LEAST THAT WE KNOW OF CALLED THE POLICE AND ASKED THEM TO HELP HER BRING THE BOY HOME AS HE HAD STARTED RECENTLY GETTING IN TROUBLE AND SKIPPING SCHOOL. SO THE THING IS IT APPEARS SHE HAD DONE THE THINGS SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE; SHE WAS ABOUT READY TO HAND HIM OVER TO THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM. SHE NEVER GOT THE CHANCE BECAUSE 10 MINUTES TO 6 ON THE MORNING THAT SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO SIGN THAT PETITION, HE WAS SHOT BY POLICE OFFICERS WHILE DRIVING THE STOLEN CAR.

>> Gary Walker: I KNOW THAT OTHER FACTIONS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE INVOLVED, TOO, AND I KNOW THAT THE REVEREND RAYMOND GRAVES, WHO HAS OFTEN BEEN OUTSPOKEN ABOUT POLICE ACTIVITY, IS NOW INVOLVED IN THE PROGRAM. WHERE DOES THAT STAND?

>> Bud Lowell: HE'S MET WITH THE FAMILY AND I BELIEVE IS ADVISING THEM. NOW, HE'S TOLD THEM TO GET A LAWYER; HE'S TOLD THEM TO SUE. HE OF COURSE DOESN'T TRUST, BASICALLY, THE LOCAL JUDICIAL COMMITTEE TO GET WHAT HE BELIEVES ARE THE ANSWERS THAT HE THINKS HE NEEDS TO HEAR. HE WANTS A FEDERAL INQUIRY IF HE CAN GET IT. THE CASE IS, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, GRAND JURY, AND THAT'S GOING TO BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, DETERMINE THE FACTS THAT ARE GOING TO BE PUT ON THE RECORD.

>> Gary Walker: HE WAS QUOTED THIS WEEK AS SAYING THE CASE IS GOING TO BE AS "TALL AS A GEORGIA PINE." WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> Bud Lowell: JUST AN EXPRESSION. HE SAYS IT'S GOING TO BE A HOT CASE. HE WANTS AN OUTSIDE LAWYER OF GREAT PRESTIGE. HE WON'T SAY WHO HE HAS IN MIND. I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS HE'S TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY LIKE JOHNNY COCHRANE. NOW, WHETHER THAT'S POSSIBLE, I DON'T KNOW. THE OTHER REACTION WE'VE HAD IS FROM MAYOR JOHNSON. HE SAYS THAT SOME COMMUNITY LEADERS HAVE COME TO HIM AND SAID, "HOW CAN WE" -- BASICALLY -- "REACH KIDS AT A YOUNGER AGE? WE HAVE THE PATHWAYS TO PEACE PROGRAM THAT TARGETS HIGH SCHOOL KIDS WHO ARE SHOWING THE CLASSIC SIGNS OF GETTING IN TROUBLE, BUT THIS IS A MARKER THAT WE HAVE GOT TO GO TO 13-, 14-, MAYBE 12-YEAR-OLDS. WHAT CAN WE DO?" AND THEY'VE COME TO HIM, AND HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO WORK WITH THEM; HE'S MOTIVATED TO TRY TO FIND SOME WAY OF DOING THAT. THE MAYOR DEFENDS THE MOTHER AND THE FAMILY, AND HE ALSO DEFENDS THE OFFICERS. HE SAYS HE WON'T SECOND-GUESS THEM FOR DOING WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD TO DO.

>> Gary Walker: NEEDLESS TO SAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ONGOING STORY IN THIS COMMUNITY. BUD, THANKS FOR JOINING US. NOW BE SURE TO LISTEN TO WXXI AM 1370 OR LOG ON TO wxxi.org FOR THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS ON THIS STORY. NOW ON TO POLITICAL ISSUES. IT'S BEEN CALLED THE MOST POLITICAL OF GOVERNMENT ACTIVITIES, AND THIS WEEK, MONROE COUNTY IS IN THE THICK OF IT. THE 2002 CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING PLAN WAS APPROVED BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE LAST WEEK, WITH MOST OF THE DISSENTING VOTES COMING FROM WESTERN NEW YORK LAWMAKERS. THE PLAN PUTS BUFFALO AND ROCHESTER INTO THE SAME DISTRICT AND FORCES A POTENTIAL PRIMARY BETWEEN TWO INCUMBENT DEMOCRATS, LOUISE SLAUGHTER AND JOHN LaFALCE. FURTHER, IT SEPARATES MONROE COUNTY INTO FOUR DIFFERENT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS. "NEED TO KNOW's" MATT CUMMINGS TAKES A CLOSER LOOK AT HOW THE NEW PLAN COULD LEAVE MONROE MONROE COUNTY BEHIND IN THE FIGHT FOR REPRESENTATION.

>> Matt Cummings: FOR 124 YEARS, THE ROCHESTER COMMUNITY HAS HAD A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS WHO CALLED ROCHESTER THEIR "HOME DISTRICT." NOW, UNDER THE TERMS OF A NEW CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING PLAN RECENTLY PASSED IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, ROCHESTER AND MONROE COUNTY WILL NO LONGER BE THE HEART OF ANY CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. INSTEAD, THE COUNTY AND THE CITY OF ROCHESTER WILL BE DIVIDED UP INTO FOUR SEPARATE DISTRICTS, AND WE WILL BE THE LESSER PART IN EACH OF THOSE DISTRICTS. LOOK AT THE SHAPE OF THE NEWLY APPROVED DISTRICTS AND YOU CAN SEE WHY THE PLAN IS CONTROVERSIAL. THIS IS HOW THE 28th DISTRICT, CURRENTLY REPRESENTED BY LOUISE SLAUGHTER, LOOKS NOW. BASICALLY IT'S THE CITY OF ROCHESTER AND THE EASTERN HALF OF MONROE COUNTY. THIS IS HOW THE REVISED 28th DISTRICT LOOKS: WITH THE CITY OF ROCHESTER JOINING BUFFALO AND NIAGARA FALLS IN ONE DISTRICT. SLAUGHTER QUESTIONS HOW ONE PERSON CAN REPRESENT THE TWO LARGEST CITIES IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.

>> Louise Slaughter: THE NEEDS OF THE TWO CITIES ARE DIFFERENT. THERE ARE 36 UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES BETWEEN THE TWO OF US. THERE ARE COMPETING PLANS FOR FAST FERRIES. THERE ARE MEDICAL CENTERS IN BOTH OF THEM THAT NEED ATTENTION. THERE ARE SCHOOLS IN BOTH OF THEM THAT NEED AND WANT ATTENTION. IT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER, AND I THINK ALL OF US AGREE TO THAT, IF BY SOME CHANCE WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE A LEGISLATOR WHO COULD ONLY ATTEND TO THE NEEDS OF THAT ONE PARTICULAR AREA.

>> Matt Cummings: LOCAL DEMOCRATS FEEL THEIR CONSTITUENTS WILL SUFFER UNDER THE NEW PLAN. BEYOND SLAUGHTER'S 28th DISTRICT CHANGING TO INCLUDE BUFFALO AND ROCHESTER, AMORY HOUGHTON'S 31st DISTRICT, WHICH HAS PREDOMINANTLY INCLUDED THE CITY OF CORNING AND THE SOUTHERN TIER, WILL ADD MUCH OF THE SOUTHERN HALF OF MONROE COUNTY TO CREATE THE NEW 29th DISTRICT. TOM REYNOLDS WILL NOW REPRESENT THE WESTERN HALF OF MONROE COUNTY AS PART OF HIS NEW 26th DISTRICT, AND JAMES WALSH WILL COVER THE NORTHEASTERN CORNER OF THE COUNTY AS PART OF HIS 25th DISTRICT THAT IS CENTERED AROUND SYRACUSE. CRITICS FEAR THE NEW PLAN WILL DILUTE MONROE COUNTY'S INFLUENCE IN WASHINGTON BECAUSE NO SINGLE REPRESENTATIVE WILL BE CATERING TO ITS NEEDS, MAKING IT HARDER TO PULL IN FEDERAL DOLLARS FOR EVERYTHING FROM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS TO JOB CREATION. NOT EVERYONE IS CRITICAL OF THE NEW PLAN. COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE, ALONG WITH AREA REPUBLICANS, SAY THE SHIFT IN REPRESENTATION WILL BE A POSITIVE FOR THE REGION. IN A STATEMENT RELEASED TO WXXI, DOYLE SAYS MONROE COUNTY WILL BE REPRESENTED BY FOUR SENIOR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THREE OF WHICH SIT ON THE POWERFUL RULES, WAYS AND MEANS AND APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEES. HE FEELS THEY WILL BRING SUBSTANTIAL FEDERAL MONEY INTO THE COUNTY. WHILE THIS PLAN HAS PASSED THE STATE LEGISLATURE, IT'S NOT YET A DONE DEAL. FIRST, IT MUST BE APPROVED BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO ENSURE THAT DISTRICTS CONFORM TO THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS 60 DAYS TO MAKE THEIR DECISION. BUT THAT MAY NOT BE THE END OF THE STORY. DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLYMAN DAVID GANTT, CONGRESSWOMAN SLAUGHTER, MAYOR WILLIAM JOHNSON, AND ELECTED OFFICIALS FROM BUFFALO HAVE ALL ATTACHED THEIR NAMES TO A CURRENT LAWSUIT -- RODRIGUEZ VERSUS PATAKI -- OVER THE REDISTRICTING PLAN. THE SUIT CLAIMS MINORITIES WILL NOT BE FAIRLY REPRESENTED UNDER THE NEW DISTRICTS. GANTT, SLAUGHTER AND JOHNSON WANT TO SEE BUFFALO AND ROCHESTER PUT INTO SEPARATE DISTRICTS WITH SEPARATE REPRESENTATION TO ENSURE AT LEAST ONE REPRESENTATIVE FIGHTS FOR ROCHESTER AND CALLS IT THEIR "HOME DISTRICT."

(Music)

>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU, MATT. WE HAVE SOME VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT, I WANT TO READ YOU PART OF THE REDISTRICTING LAW. IT SAYS, "COMPACTNESS AND CONTIGUOUSNESS: DISTRICTS SHOULD BE DRAWN TO COVER A COMPACT AREA WITH SOLID SHAPE. ALL PARTS OF THE DISTRICT SHOULD BE CONNECTED." I WANT TO TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT THE TWO MAPS OF THE 28th DISTRICT. NOW HERE IS THE EXISTING 28th DISTRICT. AS YOU SEE, IT'S MOSTLY THE CITY OF ROCHESTER AND LARGELY MONROE COUNTY. NOW, HERE'S THE NEW 28th DISTRICT. YOU CAN SEE THAT STRETCHES WAY ACROSS FROM PENFIELD TO GRAND ISLAND AND DOWN INTO BUFFALO. SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS TO GERALD GAMM, WHO IS CHAIRMAN OF THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER. IS THIS COMPACT AND CONTIGUOUS?

>> NO, IT'S NOT. IT'S A DISTRICT THAT IS DRIVEN BY POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS MUCH MORE THAN COMPACTNESS CONSIDERATIONS.

>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK YOU BOTH -- LET ME ASK THE WHOLE PANEL A POLITICAL QUESTION, AND JOSE CRUZ, MINORITY LEADER OF THE MONROE COUNTY LEGISLATURE; BILL SMITH, MAJORITY LEADER OF THE LEGISLATURE; SANDY PARKER, THE PRESIDENT OF THE I.M.C., ALL OF YOU CAN PLEASE WEIGH IN ON THIS. IT'S A PURELY POLITICAL QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S A PURELY POLITICAL OPERATION AT THIS POINT. BOTH NATIONAL PARTIES INTERVENED TO MAKE THESE DISTRICTS HAPPEN, AS THE STORY GOES. DID THEY CHOOSE ROCHESTER TO DO THIS BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD, BECAUSE OUR LOCAL DELEGATION PERHAPS HAS BEEN REPORTED TO BE FRACTURED, NOT AS TIGHT AS THE SYRACUSE AND BUFFALO DELEGATIONS, AND THEREFORE THIS MIGHT BE THE AREA WHERE THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD MAKE THIS HAPPEN EASIER THAN OTHER AREAS OF THE STATE?

>> WELL, GARY, I THINK THAT IT'S CERTAINLY TRUE THAT PROBABLY THE ROCHESTER AREA DELEGATION IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS BEEN LESS UNIFIED THAN, SAY, THE BUFFALO AREA. BUT I THINK THAT WHAT REALLY DROVE THIS WAS THE FACT THAT -- GEOGRAPHY MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. IT WAS CLEAR BECAUSE WE HAVE A DIVIDED STATE LEGISLATURE -- ONE HOUSE REPUBLICAN, ONE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC -- TWO REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS HAD TO GO. ONE WAS GOING TO BE A REPUBLICAN; ONE WAS GOING TO BE A DEMOCRAT. THERE WERE ISSUES THAT NEEDED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE DOWNSTATE TO HELP OUT NITA LOWEY. WHAT WAS LEFT THEN WAS WESTERN NEW YORK. AND JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAP OF THE CURRENT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS. YOU LOOK AT THE LaFALCE DISTRICT AND THE SLAUGHTER DISTRICT, AND IF YOU TOOK THE ERASER OF YOUR PENCIL AND JUST ERASED THAT LINE, YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT RESEMBLES, WITH SOME TINKERING AROUND THE EDGES, THIS NEW DISTRICT THAT THEY'RE NOW BOTH IN. SO I THINK IT WAS MORE A FUNCTION OF GEOGRAPHY THAN ANYTHING ELSE. THEY PUT TWO REPUBLICANS DOWNSTATE TOGETHER. THERE AREN'T THAT MANY DEMOCRATS UPSTATE TO PUT TOGETHER, AND THEY HAD TWO NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK THE REST OF THE PANEL: DO YOU SHARE THAT VIEW? I GUESS I WOULD HAVE TO ASK, YOU KNOW -- WELL, LET ME HOLD FOR A MINUTE. Mr. SMITH, AREA REPUBLICANS, PART OF YOUR PARTY, AND THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT, ARE SAYING IT'S REALLY NOT SO BAD, THAT HAVING MONROE COUNTY BE THE MINORITY DISTRICT WITH SYRACUSE AND BASICALLY CORNING IN THE SOUTHERN TIER, BUFFALO AND ERIE COUNTY, IT'S NOT A BAD DEAL FOR US.

>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IN CONTEXT. REMEMBER, UNTIL THE CURRENT LOUISE SLAUGHTER DISTRICT CAME ALONG AROUND 1992, ROCHESTER ITSELF HAD BEEN DIVIDED IN CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATIONS FOR 50 YEARS, AND THOSE 50 YEARS HAPPENED TO COINCIDE WITH SOME OF THE YEARS OF THE GREATEST PROSPERITY OF THIS AREA. SO MERE DIVISION ALONE IS NOT A BAD THING. WE WILL HAVE INCREASED REPRESENTATION, INCREASED GEOGRAPHIC PORTION OF MONROE COUNTY REPRESENTED BY TOM REYNOLDS, WHO IS ONE OF THE MOST OUTSTANDING AND NOW INFLUENTIAL MEMBERS OF THE MAJORITY PARTY IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. THAT BODES VERY WELL FOR US.

>> Gary Walker: JOSE CRUZ, YOU'RE Mr. SMITH'S COUNTERPART IN THE MONROE COUNTY LEGISLATURE. WEIGH IN HERE, PLEASE.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT'S THE CASE, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT REALISTIC TO THINK THAT -- THIS AREA'S GOING TO BE CARVED UP AND REPRESENTED BY FOUR INDIVIDUALS. I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THAT MAP, IT'S LUDICROUS TO THINK HOW ROCHESTER IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR CONCERN FOR MANY OF THESE INDIVIDUALS. THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH IN EACH DISTRICT FOR PEOPLE TO FOCUS IN ON. AND SO I THINK IT'S A REAL FALLACY TO THINK -- AND I THINK IT'S A RATIONALIZATION TO GO BACK AND SAY, "YEAH, THIS IS A GREAT THING." I THINK IT'S NOT A GOOD THING. I THINK WHAT WAS DONE WAS A TRAVESTY, AS THE CONGRESSWOMAN HAS SAID IN PUBLIC. WE ARE LOSING DIRECT, FOCUSED REPRESENTATION FROM THIS COMMUNITY IN WASHINGTON AND I THINK THAT'S BAD.

>> Gary Walker: LET'S BACK UP FROM JUST PURE POLITICS AND, Mr. GAMM, WE'LL GET RIGHT TO YOU, BUT WE'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE SANDY PARKER HERE, WHO IS NOT A POLITICIAN --

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

>> Gary Walker: AND AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS TO DEAL IN THE REALITIES OF GROWING THIS AREA'S ECONOMY -- THE I.M.C. WORKS VERY HARD AT THIS, GROWING JOBS, GROWING THIS ECONOMY -- I HAVE TO ASK YOU, DO YOU HAVE TREPIDATION ABOUT GOING INTO A DECADE WITHOUT A ROCHESTER REPRESENTATIVE?

>> YES, I DO. AND I THINK THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE A SINGLE VOICE OF A PERSON WHO RESIDES HERE, WHO HAS A HISTORY HERE. AND I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE CURRENT INCUMBENT. AS YOU LOOK OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT TEN YEARS, ROCHESTER HAS BEEN SPLIT UP BETWEEN BUFFALO AND SYRACUSE, AND WHAT UPSETS ME I THINK THE MOST IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE THREE UPSTATE CITIES, ROCHESTER TRULY HAS BEEN THE GEM OF THE THREE UPSTATE CITIES, AND YET WE'RE THE ONE THAT IS NOW BEING SPLIT UP AND DIVIDED AND NO LONGER HAS A VOICE. I CAN'T -- I MEAN, I HOPE I'M PROVEN WRONG, BUT I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK THAT, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE PERSON HERE, IS GOING TO HURT US OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

>> Gary Walker: COULD YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT -- JUST AN EXAMPLE OR A REALITY OF WHAT THAT MEANS? I MEAN, IS IT DAN CARR PICKING UP THE PHONE TO FIVE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF -- FOUR PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ONE --

>> I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXPANSION THAT'S CURRENTLY GOING ON AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER, THERE'S NOW GOING TO BE -- NOW WE'RE IN DIRECT COMPETITION WITH WHATEVER EXPANSION IS GOING TO BE OCCURRING IN THE BUFFALO MARKET AND THE SYRACUSE MARKET. SO RATHER THAN MAKING A CALL TO ONE PERSON THAT HAS A LOUD VOICE AND A STRONG VOICE, THAT HAS STRONG FEELINGS FOR THIS PARTICULAR AREA, YOU'RE GOING TO BE TALKING WITH A PERSON THAT REPRESENTS MANY CONSTITUENT GROUPS.

>> Gary Walker: GERALD GAMM, YOU WANTED TO WEIGH IN HERE.

>> YEAH, I'M NOT CONVINCED YET THAT THIS IS GOING TO HURT REPRESENTATION FOR MONROE COUNTY, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE -- AS BILL SMITH POINTS OUT, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE FOUR PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTING PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WHO ARE GOING TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO VOTERS IN THE COUNTY. AND THERE ARE LOTS OF PRECEDENTS ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU HAVE AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN DIVIDED. THERE WAS A BIG CONTROVERSY IN MASSACHUSETTS SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ABOUT TAKING SOUTHEASTERN MASSACHUSETTS, WHICH IS CURRENTLY DIVIDED AMONG MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, GIVING THEM A SINGLE MEMBER OF CONGRESS, AND MANY PEOPLE THERE FOUGHT IT, SAYING THAT THEY LIKED HAVING MULTIPLE PEOPLE FIGHTING FOR THEM. AND WHAT I THINK THIS DOES SHOW, AS YOU RAISED EARLIER, IS IT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW EFFECTIVE IS OUR REPRESENTATION IN ALBANY RIGHT NOW? HOW IMPORTANT IS MONROE COUNTY AND UPSTATE NEW YORK TO ALBANY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I THINK THESE DISTRICTS WERE DRAWN WITHOUT OUR INTERESTS BEING TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. THEY WERE BEING DRAWN TO MAKE SURE THAT TOM REYNOLDS HAD A SAFE SEAT, TO MAKE SURE THAT AMO HOUGHTON HAD A SAFE SEAT, AND IT ALSO MAKES SENSE THAT REPUBLICANS ARE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THESE DISTRICTS THAN DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THE NEW CONFIGURATION GIVES MONROE COUNTY THREE REPUBLICANS AND ONE DEMOCRAT, ALMOST CERTAINLY, WHEREAS THE CURRENT CONFIGURATION GIVES US TWO DEMOCRATS AND ONE REPUBLICAN. SO FOR MONROE COUNTY DEMOCRATS, THIS IS A GREAT BLOW BECAUSE IT SAYS THAT DOWNSTATE DEMOCRATS REALLY AREN'T TAKING THE COUNTY VERY SERIOUSLY.

>> Gary Walker: LET ME TURN TO JOSE CRUZ, AND I HAVE TO SAY, IT WAS YOUR PARTY -- SHELDON SILVER, THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY, WHO GAVE THE BLESSING TO THIS PLAN. HE HAD TO OR WE WOULDN'T BE HERE. HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL ABOUT DOWNSTATE DEMOCRATS, I GUESS?

>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS VERY SHORTSIGHTED ON THE PART OF THE SPEAKER TO DO THIS. I SHARE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT Mr. GAMM HAS RAISED. I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE A GREAT COMMUNITY HERE, AND WE HAVE SO MUCH TO OFFER; WE HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES. AND I THINK WE WERE TREATED VERY UNFAIRLY BY THE SPEAKER AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE MOTIVATIONS WERE. I'M SURE THERE'S SOME WITH REGARDS TO SOME OF THE CONGRESSIONAL SEATS. BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL THAT GOOD AT THIS MOMENT. I THINK WE HAVE GOT SOME WORK TO DO IN THIS COMMUNITY TO SORT OF COME TOGETHER AND UNIFY. I THINK WE HAVE SOME ISSUES THERE. I THINK WE'VE GOT SOME REAL CHALLENGES ON OUR HANDS.

>> Gary Walker: LET ME PUT THIS TO ALL OF YOU, AND PARTICULARLY SANDY PARKER AS WELL. NOW, YOU HEARD Mr. GAMM SAY PERHAPS IT MAY NOT BE AS BAD AS IT SOUNDS ON THE SURFACE. Mr. SMITH HAS VOICED THAT OPINION AS WELL. BUT I'M LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT THE CURRENT INCUMBENT, LOUISE SLAUGHTER, DID SAY. TAKE UNIVERSITIES FOR INSTANCE. U OF R GETS PLENTY OF FEDERAL DOLLARS FOR PROGRAMS. IF THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER, THE UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO, AND SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY ARE COMPETING FOR SOMETHING AND ROCHESTER IS THE MINORITY PART OF EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT THAT -- EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT THAT IS REPRESENTED BY A CONGRESSPERSON, WHO DO WE THINK IS GOING TO WIN? I MEAN I'M TRYING TO -- DO YOU THINK THAT'S A REALISTIC SCENARIO THAT, SAY, THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER WOULD PREVAIL IN THAT CASE?

>> YOU'RE ASKING ME?

>> Gary Walker: I'M JUST --

>> I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BEAR IN MIND THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES THAT HAS... 435 MEMBERS. AS A POLITICAL SCIENTIST, I NEED TO COUNT VERY QUICKLY. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE PERSON RIGHT NOW SPEAKING FOR ROCHESTER AS ONE OF 435 MEMBERS. ULTIMATELY OUR REPRESENTATIVE CAN'T MAKE DECISIONS. OUR REPRESENTATIVE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO PERSUADE LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE TO MAKE DECISIONS, AND HE OR SHE IS GOING TO BE AN ADVOCATE FOR THE COUNTY. UNDER THIS NEW SCENARIO, THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE PEOPLE THERE AS ADVOCATES, BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, AS MANY PEOPLE HAVE POINTED OUT, THERE'S THE DANGER THAT NONE OF THEM WILL FEEL AS STRONGLY ABOUT THE CITY OF ROCHESTER AND OUR INSTITUTIONS AS OUR CURRENT ADVOCATE DOES.

>> AND THAT'S MY FEAR, I THINK. AS YOU LOOK AT A DIVIDED COUNTY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE STRENGTH AND THE CLOUT AS WE PERHAPS HAD AS A UNIFIED ENTITY. AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT IN OTHER AREAS AS WELL AS THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER. AS YOU LOOK AT THE EXPANSION AND THE BENEFITS THAT'S COME TO R.I.T., COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES FOR THIS AREA ARE PROBABLY OUR BRIGHT SPOT RIGHT NOW, PARTICULARLY AS -- >> Gary Walker: YOU'RE REALLY LINKING ONTO THEM FOR BIOTECHNOLOGY AND GROWTH, ECONOMIC GROWTH --

>> ABSOLUTELY. AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE OUT THERE. IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE GROWTH, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO CREATE A LOT OF JOBS, WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE UNIFICATION IN TERMS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AS WELL AS OUR STATE DELEGATION. MAYBE WHAT THIS WILL DO IS CAUSE THAT UNIFICATION TO OCCUR. I HOPE THAT HAPPENS BUT...

>> I CAN TELL YOU, AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL MYSELF WHO WENT THROUGH A REDISTRICTING A YEAR AGO -- I USED TO REPRESENT ALL OF PITTSFORD IN THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE AND NOW I HAVE MOST OF PITTSFORD BUT ALSO MOST OF EAST ROCHESTER -- NOTHING CONCENTRATES YOUR ATTENTION BETTER AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL ON THE NEEDS OF AN AREA THAN HAVING THAT AREA PUT INTO YOUR DISTRICT. YOU PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR NEEDS AND WHAT THEY NEED EVEN IF IT IS A MINORITY OF ALL THE VOTES IN THE DISTRICT AS A WHOLE. SO I THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE NOW FOUR PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE VERY TUNED IN TO THE NEEDS OF MONROE COUNTY. AND BEYOND THAT, I WOULD SAY THIS: IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE A SINGLE VOICE, BUT THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT, WHICH IS THE QUALITY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF THAT VOICE. I MEAN TO MANY OF US, TOM REYNOLDS HAS ALREADY BEEN THE GO-TO PERSON TO REALLY GET THINGS ACCOMPLISHED IN WASHINGTON FOR THIS AREA.

>> Gary Walker: WE HAVE A MINUTE LEFT, AND LET ME PUT THIS QUICKLY TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. NOW WHAT? IF IT STANDS, IF IT HOLDS, IF A LAWSUIT IS UNSUCCESSFUL AND THIS IS THE DISTRICT, WHAT SHOULD THIS COMMUNITY DO NEXT TO ENSURE ITS PROPER REPRESENTATION? MAYBE I CAN START WITH SANDRA PARKER?

>> I THINK RALLY THE CURRENT FORCES THAT WE HAVE. IF ANYTHING, I THINK AS WE LOOK AT THIS AS PERHAPS THE PUSH THAT WE NEED TO COME OUT WITH A SINGLE VOICE, A SINGLE FOCUS, AND NOT BE AS FRACTURED AS WE HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST.

>> Gary Walker: JOSE CRUZ?

>> I THINK THAT IS A CHALLENGE, AND I THINK WE HAVE GOT POSSIBILITIES OF GOOD REPRESENTATION. I THROW MY HAT LOUISE SLAUGHTER'S WAY, BUT I THINK WE HAVE GOT SOME WORK TO DO IN THIS COMMUNITY.

>> I THINK WE GO TO WORK IMMEDIATELY WITH OUR NEW REPRESENTATIVES AND TRY TO GET A COHERENT AND COHESIVE VOICE IN WASHINGTON.

>> Gary Walker: PROFESSOR GERALD GAMM, YOU GET THE LAST WORD.

>> I THINK THREE THINGS. FIRST, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE ASSEMBLY DELEGATION FROM MONROE COUNTY AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE AND EXPECT MORE OUT OF THEM. SECOND, WE NEED TO TURN TO OUR NEW REPRESENTATIVES AND REQUEST GOOD THINGS OUT OF THEM. AND, THIRD, WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AS A COUNTY. I MEAN, TOO OFTEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CITY AND COUNTY BEING DIVIDED. THIS GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALIZE WHAT WE HAVE IN COMMON.

>> Gary Walker: YOU HAVE JUST HAD THE LAST WORD. THANK YOU, ALL FOUR OF YOU, FOR JOINING US. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT. THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS DISCUSSION. FOR MORE INFORMATION ON HOW YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAY CHANGE, LOG ON TO OUR WEB SITE AT wxxi.org/ntk. WHILE YOU ARE THERE, YOU CAN ALSO TAKE PART IN OUR WEEKLY INTERNET POLL. AND FOR COMPREHENSIVE DAILY COVERAGE OF STATE ISSUES, INCLUDING THIS ONE, IT'S www.NYcitizens.org. ON THE NYcitizens' MAP, YOU'LL SEE THE NEW 28th DISTRICT FOR YOURSELF. CHECK IT OUT.


NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH THE "THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."


(Music)

JOINING US NOW IN STUDIO IS
ELLEN ROSEN, EDITOR OF THE
BUSINESS SECTION OF THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."ELLEN, GOOD TO SEE YOU THIS
WEEK.

>> Ellen Rosen: THANK YOU.

>> Gary Walker: JOBS, JOBS,
JOBS...THAT WAS ON THE COUNTY
EXECUTIVE'S LIST THIS WEEK
IN THE STATE OF THE COUNTY
ADDRESS AND HIS JOBS FIRST
PROGRAM.
ANYTHING NEW IN THERE,
DIFFERENT IN THERE?

>> Ellen Rosen: THERE IS SOME
NEW THINKING.
I MEAN, WE HAD A STORY IN
TODAY'S PAPER LOOKING AT THE
JOBS PLUS PROGRAM, WHICH IS
ALREADY ONE OF THE MOST
GENEROUS TAX INCENTIVE
PROGRAMS ANYWHERE.
IT'S TWICE AS GENEROUS AS THE
MINIMUM GUIDELINES THAT THE
STATE SETS FOR SUCH PROGRAMS.
BUT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT
PERHAPS LOADING SOME OF THOSE
THINGS BACK FURTHER AND GOING
AFTER SOME COMPANIES WITHBIGGER -- THEY'RE TALKING
ABOUT REALLY TARGETING
COMPANIES THAT ARE GOING TO
CREATE A LOT OF JOBS.
RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE TO PROMISE
SOMETHING LIKE A 10% INCREASE.
NOW THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO GO
UP TO COMPANIES THAT ARE
GUARANTEEING AT LEAST 100
JOBS.

>> Gary Walker: CAN A COUNTY
GOVERNMENT -- I MEAN IT'S ONE
ENTITY, ONE TAXING ENTITY.
IS IT REALLY GOING TO HAVE
THAT MAJOR AN EFFECT IN
ATTRACTING BUSINESSES HERE?

>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, YOU
KNOW, THE JURY IS REALLY OUT
ABOUT WHETHER THESE TAX
INCENTIVE PROGRAMS AND OTHER
KINDS OF THINGS ARE --

>> Gary Walker: IT'S
CONTROVERSIAL RIGHT NOW.

>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, IT'S
BEEN KIND OF CONTROVERSIAL FOR
A FEW YEARS, BUT WHETHER THESEKINDS OF PROGRAMS ACTUALLY DO
CREATE JOBS AND CREATE JOBS AT
THE MAGNITUDE THAT COUNTIES
NEED...
BUT ONE THING THAT IS
IMPORTANT IN WHAT DOYLE IS
TALKING ABOUT IS THIS KIND OF
PARTNERSHIP THAT WAS LAUDED BY
SOME OF THE BUSINESS LEADERS
HERE, THIS COMING TOGETHER,
BECAUSE WHAT THEY SAY HAS
BEEN MISSING FOR A LONG TIME
IS THIS PROMOTION OF ROCHESTER
AS A GREAT PLACE TO WORK AND
LIVE AND TO HAVE A COMPANY.
AND HE'S TALKING ABOUT THESE
PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS
THAT WOULD SORT OF DO SOME
MORE OF THIS MARKETING OF THE
REGION AND ALSO GETTING IN
SOME VENTURE CAPITAL MONEY
BECAUSE THIS AREA HAS ALWAYS
LAGGED VERY BADLY IN GETTING
VENTURE CAPITAL MONEY HERE.
COMPANIES JUST DON'T WANT TO
DO IT, AND THEY'RE LOOKING FORREALLY A PROVEN RECORD NOW
BEFORE THEY'RE WILLING TO
INVEST AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT
MAKES THE WHEELS START GOING.

>> Gary Walker: SO THE PRIVATE
PARTICIPATION IS KEY IN THIS
PLAN?

>> Ellen Rosen: IT IS.

>> Gary Walker: OKAY.
WE'LL KEEP OUR EYE ON THAT AND
I'M SURE THE PAPER WILL AS
WELL.
KODAK, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, NOT
LIKELY TO BE HIRING, ADDING
JOBS ANY TIME SOON, BUT THEY
DID HAVE THE
INVESTOR/STOCKHOLDERS' MEETING
YESTERDAY.
ANY MAJOR THEME COME OUT OF
THAT?

>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, I THINK
DAN CARP REITERATED SOME OF
THE THINGS THAT HE HAS BEEN
SAYING, WHICH IS THAT WHILE
ECONOMISTS MAY BE SAYING THAT
THE ECONOMY IS RECOVERING,MOST BUSINESS LEADERS WOULD
TELL YOU IT'S NOT QUITE THERE
YET, AND SO HE SAYS IT'S GOING
TO BE AT LEAST AGAIN 2003.
BUT ONE THING HE DID SAY -- HE
REALLY SORT OF REMINDED PEOPLE
NOT TO GIVE UP ON KODAK.
FILM IS REALLY HERE TO STAY.
YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 500
MILLION CAMERA USERS BUT
YOU'VE ONLY GOT 29 MILLION
DIGITAL USERS.
WELL, YES, DIGITAL HAS A WAYS
TO GO BEFORE IT CATCHES UP
WITH FILM.
SO HIS QUOTE WAS THAT REALLY,
YOU KNOW, "THE GLASS WE'VE GOT
-- MAYBE THE GLASS IS HALF
FULL, BUT WE HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO FILL THE GLASS
TO THE BRIM, GET PEOPLE TO
TAKE MORE PICTURES, MAKE
CAMERAS EASIER TO USE,
INCREASE FILM SALES, AND FILM
IS REALLY A VERY VIABLE
PRODUCT FOR KODAK, SO DON'TCOUNT IT DEAD YET."

>> Gary Walker: KEEP OUR EYE
ON FILM.
I WOULD LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT THE BUFFALO BILLS'
CAMP COMING TO TOWN AND SOME
NEWS TODAY ABOUT THE
SPONSORSHIP OF THAT.
WEGMAN'S GAVE UP SPONSORSHIP
LAST YEAR.
BAUSCH & LOMB.

>> Ellen Rosen: THAT ACTUALLY
WAS A BIT OF A SURPRISE.
IT WAS SOMETHING WE WEREN'T
REALLY EXPECTING WHEN WE HEARD
ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK B&L IS
PROBABLY LOOKING FOR SOME NAME
RECOGNITION, ALIGN ITSELF AS A
COMPANY THAT'S TRYING TO RISE
AGAIN WITH A TEAM THAT'S
TRYING TO RISE AGAIN, GET OUT
THERE IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
I'M SURE -- BAUSCH & LOMB IS
ALSO A COMPANY WITH A LONG
HISTORY OF COMMUNITY
INVOLVEMENT.THIS IS PROBABLY PART OF THAT,
BUT WE'LL FIND OUT MORE LATER
TODAY WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR
PRESS CONFERENCE.

>> Gary Walker: BECAUSE I'M
WONDERING WHAT THEY GET OUT OF
IT OTHER THAN NAME RECOGNITION
OR LINKED WITH A --

>> Ellen Rosen: THAT'S
PROBABLY A LOT OF IT.
AND FOOTBALL PLAYERS WEAR
CONTACT LENSES AND ALL SORTS
OF THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Gary Walker: THAT I DIDN'T
THINK OF.
WHAT'S COMING UP?
WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON?

>> Ellen Rosen: ACTUALLY, YOU
RAISED KODAK BEFORE AND THAT'S
REALLY INTERESTING.
SUNDAY BUSINESS THIS WEEK,
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A GOOD
LOOK AT THE MOVIE THEATER OF
THE FUTURE BASED ON NEW
DIGITAL PROJECTION SYSTEMS
THAT KODAK IS JUST ABOUT READYTO ROLL OUT.

>> Gary Walker: SO IT'S NOT SO
MUCH A MOVIE THEATER BUT A
DIGITAL PROJECTION THEATER?

>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, REALLY A
WHOLE EXPERIENCE, A REALLY NEW
WAY OF TAKING THE MULTIPLEX,
WHERE YOU CAN HAVE WHOLE
DIFFERENT USES AND ONE SYSTEM
THAT REALLY ALLOWS THE THEATER
OPERATOR TO HAVE ALL DIFFERENT
KINDS OF THINGS GOING, PERHAPS
SIMULCAST OF A LIVE BROADWAY
PRODUCTION, A CONCERT, YOUR
ANNUAL BOARD MEETING, ALL
SORTS OF THINGS THAT COULD BE
GOING ON.
AND WE ARE REALLY GOING TO
GIVE YOU NOT JUST THE STORY
BEHIND IT, BUT WE'VE GOT THIS
REALLY WONDERFUL GRAPHIC THAT
REALLY SHOWS YOU WHAT THAT
THEATER'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE
FROM THE CONCESSION STAND ALL
THE WAY INTO THE SCREEN.

>> Gary Walker: AND WE'LL BE SEEING THAT SUNDAY.

>> Ellen Rosen: YOU'LL BE
SEEING THAT SUNDAY.

>> Gary Walker: IN THE
BUSINESS SECTION OF THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, THANK YOU AGAIN.

>> Ellen Rosen: THANKS, GARY.


>> Gary Walker: NOW, FOR MORE
INFORMATION ON THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW,"
JUST LOG ON TO THE WEB SITE,
wxxi.org/ntk.
ALSO ON THERE, THERE WILL BE
AN AUDIO FILE OF THE MAYOR'S
CALL TO "1370 CONNECTION"
AND SOME ANCILLARY STORIES
THAT WE HAVE PUBLISHED ON
THERE.
IT'S ALL THERE FOR YOU TO SEE
ON wxxi.org/ntk.
NOW, THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S
PROGRAM.
NEXT WEEK, WE'LL HAVE THE
BISHOP OF THE DIOCESE OF
ROCHESTER.SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

(Music)

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