(Music)
>> Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON
"NEED TO KNOW," SEXUAL ABUSE
BY PRIESTS: IT'S A DIFFICULT
SUBJECT TO TALK ABOUT AND EVEN
HARDER WHEN IT HAPPENS
LOCALLY.
TONIGHT, WE'LL EXPLORE WHAT'S
HAPPENING IN OUR COMMUNITY AND
SPEAK WITH THE LEADER OF THE
DIOCESE OF ROCHESTER, BISHOP
MATTHEW CLARK.
AND ELLEN ROSEN JOINS US FOR
THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "THE
BUSINESS SECTION" WITH THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
IT'S ALL COMING UP NEXT ON
"NEED TO KNOW."
>> WHEN VICTIMS COME FORWARD
AND TALK ABOUT WHAT OCCURRED
TO THEM AND TALK PUBLICLY,
THAT EMPOWERS OTHER VICTIMS TO
SAY, "I WAS ABUSED ALSO."
(Music)
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTHNEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES,
POLITICS, EDUCATION AND
CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS
JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL
LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT
OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
I'M GARY WALKER.
WITHIN THE PAST FEW WEEKS, THE
DIOCESE OF ROCHESTER HAS
STRIPPED SIX LOCAL CLERGY OF
THEIR PRIESTLY DUTIES.
THE BISHOP HAS ASKED FOR AND
RECEIVED THE RESIGNATIONS OF
THREE AREA PRIESTS WHO WERE
PASTORS OF LOCAL PARISHES FOR
ALLEGED SEXUAL ABUSE OF
CHILDREN IN THE 1970s.
THE BISHOP ALSO STRIPPED TWO
PRIESTS WHO WORKED INADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES AND A
RETIRED PRIEST OF THEIR
DUTIES.
THE REVEREND THOMAS BURR OF
St. MARY OF OUR MOTHER CHURCH
IN HORSEHEADS, NEW YORK, THE
REVEREND FOSTER ROGERS OF St.
PIUS X CHURCH IN CHILI, AND
THE REVEREND DAVID SIMON OF
THE ST. PAUL CHURCH IN WEBSTER
RESIGNED.
THE REVEREND ROBERT O'NEILL,
WHO RETIRED LAST JUNE BECAUSE
OF HEALTH CONCERNS, AND THE
REVERENDS WILLIAM LUM AND
THOMAS CORBETT -- BOTH IN
ADMINISTRATIVE ROLES AT
DIOCESAN HEADQUARTERS -- WERE
STRIPPED OF THEIR PRIESTLY
DUTIES.
THE DIOCESE SAYS IT IS
CONTINUING ITS INVESTIGATION
INTO THEIR RECORDS TO
DETERMINE IF ANY OTHER
MISCONDUCT OCCURRED.
REPORTS OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCTBY CATHOLIC CLERGY WILL HAVE
LONG-LASTING RAMIFICATIONS FOR
THE CHURCH AND ITS
PARISHIONERS.
HOWEVER, IT IS ALSO A LEGAL
AND BEHAVIORAL ISSUE.
"NEED TO KNOW's" MATT CUMMINGS
EXPLORES HOW MEMBERS OF THOSE
PROFESSIONS ARE REACTING.
>> Matt Cummings: MONROE
COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY
HOWARD RELIN SAYS IT'S
DIFFICULT TO PROSECUTE CASES
OF SEXUAL ABUSE BECAUSE
VICTIMS ARE OFTEN RELUCTANT TO
COME FORWARD.
WHEN THE CASE INVOLVES A
MEMBER OF THE CLERGY, IT
BECOMES EVEN HARDER TO GET A
VICTIM INTO COURT.
>> WHEN YOU ACCUSE SOMEONE OF
A CRIME, YOU HAVE TO GO INTO
COURT AND TESTIFY AGAINST THAT
PERSON.
AND MANY CASES IN THE CHILD
ABUSE AREA BECOME VERYEMBARRASSING NOT JUST TO THE
VICTIM BUT TO THE VICTIM'S
FAMILY.
>> Matt Cummings: RELIN SAYS
EVEN IF A VICTIM IS WILLING TO
TESTIFY, IT STILL MIGHT NOT BE
ENOUGH TO PROSECUTE THE CASE.
>> NORMALLY THERE ARE ONLY TWO
PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE: THE
VICTIM AND THE OFFENDER.
THERE'S NO ONE ELSE.
NO ONE ELSE SEES THIS OCCUR.
THEY'RE DONE IN SECLUSION;
THEY'RE DONE WITH NO ONE ELSE
AROUND.
SO WHEN YOU TRY TO LOOK FOR
CORROBORATING EVIDENCE OF THE
CRIME, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO
GET THAT, AND NORMALLY IT IS
JUST THE OFFENDER'S WORD
VERSUS THE DEFENDANT'S DENIAL.
>> Matt Cummings: THE CHURCH
HAS DISPUTED THE USE OF THE
WORD "PEDOPHILIA" TO DESCRIBE
THE ALLEGED SEX ABUSE BECAUSE
MANY OF THE CASES INVOLVETEENS.
THE CHURCH HAS ALSO DESCRIBED
SO-CALLED "NOTORIOUS CASES" OF
ABUSE AS NEEDING SPECIAL
ATTENTION.
RELIN SAYS THE LAW DOESN'T
CARE WHO THE ACCUSED IS, IT IS
VERY CLEAR IN ITS DEFINITIONS
OF PEDOPHILIA AND SEX ABUSE.
>> PEDOPHILIA IS AN OFFENDER
WHO FOCUSES IN ON A PARTICULAR
AGE GROUP, AND IT CAN RANGE
LITERALLY FROM SEVEN OR EIGHT
YEARS OLD AT THE YOUNGEST AGE
TO, IN THIS SITUATION, MORE
LIKELY YOUNG TEENAGERS.
NORMALLY THE OFFENDER, WHETHER
IT'S -- WHATEVER THE
OCCUPATION OF THE OFFENDER,
FOCUSES IN ON YOUNG MALE
VICTIMS, BEING A MALE
OFFENDER, AND TRIES TO HAVE
SEXUAL CONTACT WITH AS MANY
VICTIMS AS HE POSSIBLY CAN.
>> Matt Cummings: AND WHAT IS
THE ABUSE CLASSIFIED AS WHENIT INVOLVES AN ADOLESCENT?
>> THAT CAN BE EITHER RAPE OR
SODOMY OR SEXUAL ABUSE BECAUSE
THE LAW DOES NOT ALLOW A
PERSON UNDER THE AGE OF 17 TO
CONSENT TO ANY FORM OF ABUSE.
>> Matt Cummings: THE
DEFINITIONS AREN'T AS CUT AND
DRIED IN THE PSYCHIATRIC
WORLD.
Dr. JACK McINTYRE IS THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE PSYCHIATRY AND
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT
FOR UNITY HEALTH SYSTEM.
HE SAYS THERE IS NO TYPICAL,
UNIFORM PROFILE OF AN
OFFENDER, BUT A GENERAL
PICTURE DOES EMERGE.
>> CERTAINLY A COMMON
PRESENTATION MAY BE A
MIDDLE-AGED MALE WHO IS
SOMEWHAT ISOLATED IN TERMS OF
RELATIONSHIPS GENERALLY AND
WHO BEFRIENDS OR GETS CLOSE TO
CHILDREN, SOMETIMES WITHIN THE
FAMILY SETTING, WHICH IS AVERY COMMON SITUATION, OF
COURSE.
AND THEN ANOTHER SITUATION IS
IN A POSITION OF SOME
AUTHORITY AS A PROFESSIONAL OR
HAVE SOME RELATIONSHIPS WITH
CHILDREN, AND THEN AS A RESULT
OF BOTH FANTASIES AND THEN
DEALING WITH THOSE FANTASIES
BEGINS TO EXPERIENCE PLEASURE
IN TERMS OF SOME INAPPROPRIATE
CONTACT, SEXUAL ACTIVITY, WITH
THE MINORS.
>> Matt Cummings: CELIBACY HAS
BECOME A HOT-BUTTON ISSUE WHEN
DISCUSSING PRIESTS ACCUSED OF
ABUSING MINORS, WITH MANY
OFFERING IT AS A POSSIBLE
EXPLANATION FOR THE ALLEGED
MISCONDUCT.
McINTYRE DISAGREES.
>> NO, I WOULDN'T SEE THAT
DIRECT CONNECTION.
IN MY MIND, THE CELIBACY ISSUE
IS NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE
PEDOPHILIA, THE ABUSE OFCHILDREN.
I THINK THAT IS A SEPARATE
ISSUE.
I DON'T SEE THAT AS BEING
DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE
PROBLEM OF SEXUAL ABUSE OF
MINORS.
AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS
THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO
ARE MARRIED, ET CETERA, WHO
HAVE ALSO COMMITTED SEXUAL
ABUSE AND CONTINUE TO COMMIT
SEXUAL ABUSE WITH THEIR OWN
CHILDREN OR WITH OTHER
CHILDREN, ET CETERA.
>> Matt Cummings: McINTYRE
SAYS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART
OF TREATING A SEXUAL OFFENDER
IS REMOVING THEM FROM ANY
ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY HAVE
ACCESS TO CHILDREN.
ONLY THEN HE SAYS CAN
TREATMENT BE EFFECTIVE.
>> CAN A SEXUAL OFFENDER BE
TREATED AND NOT HAVE FURTHER
SEXUAL OFFENSES?ABSOLUTELY YES.
THE PREVENTION OF FURTHER
ABUSE BY THESE INDIVIDUALS
THAT STRUGGLE WITH THIS
PROBLEM,
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
TREATMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE
NOW.
THERE ARE MEDICATIONS THAT ARE
AVAILABLE, BOTH WHAT WE CALL
ANTI-ANDROGEN MEDICATIONS THAT
ARE USED, AND ACTUALLY SOME OF
THEM HAVE BEEN AROUND NOW FOR
ABOUT 25 YEARS AND HAVE PROVED
TO BE VERY EFFECTIVE.
>> Matt Cummings: THIS IS NOT
THE FIRST TIME RELIN SAYS HE
HAS INVESTIGATED MEMBERS OF
THE CHURCH.
>> WE HAVE HANDLED A FEW CASES
IN THE PAST WHERE WE'VE HAD
THEFT OF MONEY FROM THE
CHURCH.
WE'VE HAD THREATS AGAINST
PRIESTS WHERE WE'VE PROSECUTED
OTHER PEOPLE.AND WE'VE HAD A FEW CASES
WHERE PRIESTS HAVE IN FACT
BEEN INVOLVED IN ABUSE,
WHETHER IT BE ABUSE AGAINST
FEMALES OR, IN A FEW
INSTANCES, ABUSE AGAINST YOUNG
MALES.
>> Matt Cummings: RELIN SAYS
HE HAS PAID CLOSE ATTENTION TO
THE COVER-UP SCANDALS
SURFACING FROM BOSTON AND
PHILADELPHIA.
WHEN THAT NEWS BROKE, HE MET
WITH BISHOP MATTHEW CLARK TO
DISCUSS WHAT THEY COULD DO
TOGETHER TO ENCOURAGE VICTIMS
TO COME FORWARD AND WHETHER
ANY PREVIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF
ABUSE HERE WERE HIDDEN.
>> AND FROM EVERYTHING I HAVE
SEEN WITH BISHOP CLARK, I HAVE
NOT SEEN THE SLIGHTEST
EVIDENCE OF THAT, THAT HE OR
ANY MEMBER OF THE LEADERSHIP
COUNCIL OF THE CHURCH HERE HAS
PARTICIPATED IN ANYTHING LIKETHAT.
>> Matt Cummings: RELIN SAYS
HIS OFFICE HAS RECEIVED
BETWEEN 10 AND 15 PHONE CALLS
SINCE THE SCANDAL BROKE
NATIONALLY, FROM PEOPLE
CLAIMING TO HAVE BEEN ABUSED
BY LOCAL PRIESTS.
RELIN SAYS NONE OF THE
CALLERS' ALLEGATIONS CAN BE
PROSECUTED BECAUSE THEY FALL
OUTSIDE OF THE STATUTE OF
LIMITATIONS, AND NONE OF THE
PRIESTS CAN BE PLACED ON THE
STATE'S SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY
BECAUSE NONE OF THEM HAVE BEEN
CONVICTED OF A SEXUAL CRIME.
BISHOP CLARK SPENT LAST
WEEKEND PERFORMING MASSES AT
THE CHURCHES OF PRIESTS WHO
WERE REMOVED, TRYING TO
PROVIDE UNDERSTANDING AND
CLOSURE TO PARISHIONERS.
HOWEVER, RELIN BELIEVES THE
END MAY NOT BE IN SIGHT.
>> I THINK WE'LL SEE MORE PEOPLE COMING FORWARD.
I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN ESTIMATE
AS TO HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT
WILL BE, BUT I'M SURE WE'LL
SEE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
I SUSPECT THAT IT WILL RELATE
TO THE PRIESTS WHO HAVE BEEN
IDENTIFIED SO FAR BECAUSE I
THINK THOSE, UNFORTUNATELY,
ARE THE PRIESTS WHO WERE
INVOLVED NOT JUST IN A SINGLE
INCIDENT BUT IN MULTIPLE
INCIDENTS, AND I THINK THOSE
VICTIMS ARE GOING TO BE
COMFORTABLE IN COMING FORWARD.
(Music)
>> Gary Walker: FOR THEIR
PART, THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF
ROCHESTER HAS FORWARDED
INFORMATION TO RELIN'S OFFICE
ABOUT SIX AREA PRIESTS
REGARDING SEXUAL MISCONDUCT.
LAST WEEK, THE DIOCESE OFFERED
A FINANCIAL SETTLEMENT TO PAUL
HARDY, WHO CLAIMS HE WAS
MOLESTED BY THE REVERENDWILLIAM LUM.
LUM PLEADED GUILTY IN 1997 TO
THIRD-DEGREE SEXUAL ABUSE
AFTER ADMITTING HE MOLESTED
HARDY IN 1992.
JOINING ME NOW IN STUDIO TO
DISCUSS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND IN OUR
LOCAL DIOCESE IS BISHOP
MATTHEW CLARK.
BISHOP CLARK, THANK YOU FOR
BEING HERE.
>> HAPPY TO DO THIS, GARY.
>> Gary Walker: HOW ARE YOU
HOLDING UP?
>> WELL, THANK YOU, I THINK.
THERE'S LOTS OF SUPPORT AND
UNDERSTANDING AND INTEREST IN
THIS ISSUE.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S PAINFUL FOR THE
WHOLE COMMUNITY, THE CATHOLIC
COMMUNITY, AND FOR ME AND OUR
PRIESTS.
IT'S A TOUGH TIME.
>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK
YOU: WILL THERE BE ANY OTHERACTION TAKEN AGAINST ANY OTHER
CLERGY IN A ROCHESTER DIOCESE
IN THE NEAR FUTURE?
>> WE HAVE TWO INSTANCES, TWO
ALLEGATIONS UNDER
INVESTIGATION RIGHT NOW.
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THOSE
INVESTIGATIONS WILL YIELD.
I'M WAITING --
>> Gary Walker: ARE THEY
RECENT ALLEGATIONS?
>> NO, THESE ARE --
>> Gary Walker: LONGSTANDING?
>> ABUSE LONG AGO, 25 AND 30
YEARS.
THAT'S PART OF THE DIFFICULTY
IN THE SLOW PROCESS, BECAUSE
IT'S HARD TO FIND WITNESSES
AND MEMORIES ARE FRAGILE,
WEAK.
BUT THOSE TWO PROBES GO ON.
I'M AWAITING RECOMMENDATIONS
FROM OUR PANEL, AND THERE'S A
THIRD ONE THAT HAS JUST BEGUN.
THAT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE
WHILE BEFORE THAT UNFOLDS.>> Gary Walker: SO THERE'S
MORE ANNOUNCEMENTS POSSIBLE
REGARDING --
>> POSSIBLE, YES.
>> Gary Walker: -- CLERGY.
>> UM-HMM.
>> Gary Walker: ARE YOU
REVIEWING ALL THE PERSONAL
FILES OF ALL DIOCESAN
EMPLOYEES, BOTH LAY AND
CLERGY, RIGHT NOW?
>> WE WENT THROUGH ALL OF OUR
CLERGY FILES ON THE HEAD OF
THIS STORM OF PUBLICITY AND
REACTION AND INQUIRY.
I'M NOT AWARE THAT WE HAVE
REVIEWED ALL PERSONNEL FILES
AT THIS TIME, NO.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE DOING
THAT, BUT SOMETIMES THINGS GO
ON AND I'M NOT RIGHT IN
IMMEDIATE TOUCH WITH IT.
BUT TO THE BEST OF MY
KNOWLEDGE, WE HAVEN'T BEGUN A
SYSTEMATIC SEARCH OF THOSE
FILES.WE HAVE NO -- THAT I'M AWARE
OF -- NO ALLEGATIONS, NO
QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS.
>> Gary Walker: SHOULD THE
CHARGES PROVE CREDIBLE IN THE
CASES THAT YOU'RE
INVESTIGATING NOW, WILL YOU
TAKE SIMILAR ACTIONS AS YOU
DID AGAINST THE SIX PRIESTS?
>> YES, WE WOULD, GIVEN A
SIMILAR SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES
AND RECOMMENDATIONS.
YES, THAT WOULD BE OUR POLICY.
>> Gary Walker: BISHOP CLARK,
YOU SAID IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE
TO REVIEW PERSONNEL FILES OF
YOUR EMPLOYEES WHEN YOU FIRST
BECAME BISHOP OF ROCHESTER.
YOU DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS AN
ACTIVITY THAT WAS APPROPRIATE.
YOU WANTED TO GIVE EVERYBODY A
LOOK WITH FRESH EYE.
>> YES.
>> Gary Walker: IF YOU WOULD
HAVE, THOUGH, AND IF YOU WOULD
HAVE SEEN CREDIBLE CLAIMS OFSEXUAL MISCONDUCT ON THE PARTS
OF REVERENDS BURR, ROGERS AND
SIMON, WOULD YOU HAVE STOPPED
THEM FROM ASSUMING A ROLE OF
PASTOR OR TO WORK IN A PARISH
SETTING?
>> GIVE WHAT I KNOW NOW, I
MOST CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE.
BACK THEN, IT'S REALLY --
USUALLY SPECULATION RELATES TO
THE FUTURE.
THIS IS ALMOST A QUESTION OF
SPECULATION IN THE PAST.
I THINK I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE
BEEN INCLINED TO REMOVE THEM
FROM MINISTRY, AT LEAST UNTIL
SUCH TIME AS WE WERE
ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THERE WAS
CREDIBLE KIND OF EVIDENCE TO
DO IT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T
HAPPEN THAT WAY AND IT'S A
VERY HARD QUESTION TO ANSWER.
IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHAT WE DO
NOW, AND IT'S BEEN PRETTY
CLEAR THAT WAY FOR AWHILE,THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE THE
FORMAL WRITTEN POLICY ABOUT
IT.
BUT THE MORE WE GET INTO THIS
AND THE MORE WE LEARN ABOUT
IT, THE MORE CONVINCED I AM
THAT THE ONLY WAY TO RESTORE
TRUST, TO FOSTER HEALING, AND
TO DO ALL WE CAN THAT OUR
POLICIES ARE CREDIBLE AND
CLEAR TO THE PUBLIC, I FEEL
IT'S A NECESSARY STEP.
>> Gary Walker: LET ME GO BACK
AND ASK JUST ONE OTHER
QUESTION IN THIS AREA.
THREE PARISH PRIESTS --
FATHERS ROGERS, SIMON AND BURR
-- THESE CASES OCCURRED WELL
BEFORE YOU WERE THE BISHOP OF
ROCHESTER.
>> YES.
>> Gary Walker: THE TWO
ADMINISTRATIVE PRIESTS, THAT
WAS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS.
SO YOU WERE IN CHARGE AT THAT
TIME.
>>
THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Gary Walker: WHY NOT TAKE
THE ACTION THAT YOU TOOK THESE
LAST TWO WEEKS WITH THEM EIGHT
YEARS AGO?
>> THEY WERE REMOVED FROM
ACTIVE PASTORAL MINISTRY AT
THAT TIME, THE RESPECTIVE
TIMES WHEN WE BECAME AWARE OF
THEIR OFFENSES.
AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME, THOSE
OFFENSES HAVING BEEN DEALT
WITH AS BEST WE KNEW, I WANTED
TO TRY -- I WANTED TO OFFER
THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO
CONSTRUCTIVE THINGS, FOR WHICH
THEY WERE TRAINED AND IN WHICH
THEY WERE KNOWLEDGEABLE, THAT
WOULD BE AT THE SERVICE OF
PEOPLE, AND SO WE ASSIGNED
THEM TO -- I'M GOING TO SAY
"DESK JOBS."
BUT WE FOUND, IN ALL
FRANKNESS, THAT THAT DECISION
DIDN'T REST WELL WITH THE
COMMUNITY.IT WAS ARGUED, I THINK WITH --
CERTAINLY WITH THOUGHTFULNESS
AND SINCERITY, AND I BEGAN TO
REALIZE THE CONSIDERABLE
TRUTH, THAT DESK JOB OR NO,
THEY WERE STILL PERCEIVED TO
BE MINISTERING IN THE NAME OF
THE CHURCH, AND THAT DID NOT
REST WELL EITHER WITH A GOOD
SEGMENT OF THEIR IMMEDIATE
CO-WORKERS NOR WITH PEOPLE IN
THE FIELD.
THEY ALWAYS KNEW THAT WAS
SUBJECT TO REVIEW, AND IT CAME
THE TIME WHEN, YOU KNOW,
TRYING TO BE OPEN TO THE
FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED, THAT I
MADE THE JUDGMENT THAT TO BE
CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU JUST
SAID, WE HAD TO TAKE ACTION IN
THAT REGARD, TOO.
>> Gary Walker: BISHOP CLARK,
I HAVE TO ASK YOU THIS: YOU
ARE A MAN OF FORGIVENESS, BUT
YOU ARE STILL A MAN.
SPEAK ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS WHEN YOU REVIEWED THOSE CHARGES AND
FOUND THEM TO BE CREDIBLE
AGAINST YOUR FELLOW PRIESTS,
WHO WERE SERVING AS PASTORS,
PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU THOUGHT
ABOUT MAYBE THE VICTIMS, THE
VICTIMS' FAMILIES.
WERE YOU ANGRY?
>> YES, I WAS ANGRY.
I WAS, YOU KNOW, FELT THE PAIN
THAT YOU FEEL WHEN PEOPLE IN
YOUR CARE ARE OFFENDED OR
HURT.
I WAS IN PAIN FOR MY BROTHER
PRIESTS, THE VAST MAJORITY OF
WHOM LITERALLY GIVE THEIR
LIVES IN SERVICE OF THE PEOPLE
AND CARE FOR THEM.
SO ANGER, PAIN, A SENSE OF
FRUSTRATION... A SENSE OF
CHALLENGE.
I HAD A LETTER FROM A WOMAN
THIS MORNING WHO SAID, "YOU
DON'T EVER SEEM ANGRY ABOUT
THIS."
AND I WROTE BACK TO HER AND ISAID, "I REALLY APPRECIATE
YOUR RAISING THAT ISSUE.
I CAN TELL YOU HONESTLY YES, I
FEEL A LOT OF ANGER, BUT I TRY
TO MANAGE THAT ANGER IN SUCH A
WAY THAT I CAN SORT OF FEED
IT, USE IT AS ENERGY FOR
APPROPRIATE RESPONSES."
I DON'T THINK I DEMONSTRATE A
LOT OF ANGER, AT LEAST TO THE
ORDINARY EYE, BUT THAT DOESN'T
MEAN IT'S NOT THERE OR THAT I
DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.
I THINK -- YOU KNOW, IF I TAKE
OFF MY BISHOP'S HAT AND TAKE
OFF MY PRIEST'S COLLAR, AS YOU
SAY, I'M A MAN; I'M A HUMAN
BEING.
I LOVE KIDS; I CARE ABOUT THIS
COMMUNITY.
AND WE'RE DEALING WITH AN
EXTREMELY PAINFUL ISSUE, AND
I'M NOT APART FROM THAT PAIN.
I MAY NOT FEEL IT -- I MAY NOT
BE -- I'M CERTAINLY NOT A
PERSON WHO IS DIRECTLY OFFENDED BY THIS VIOLATION OF
MY BODY AND MY TRUST, BUT
THERE'S A CERTAIN SENSE OF
BEING INVADED, TOO, BY THE
PAIN OF THIS GENERAL
EXPERIENCE.
AND I THINK, WHETHER YOU'RE
ROMAN CATHOLIC OR NOT, I THINK
NOBODY IN OUR COMMUNITY LIKES
THIS.
NO ONE IS REJOICING IN IT, AND
I WOULD SAY A GOOD MANY PEOPLE
ARE JUST PAINED BY THIS BEING
PART OF OUR REALITY.
>> Gary Walker: IN A CHURCH
THAT PREACHES FORGIVENESS,
THOUGH, SOME OF YOUR
PARISHIONERS ARE NOT AS
FORGIVING.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE VICTIMS
AND PARENTS OF VICTIMS TO MAKE
THEM UNDERSTAND FORGIVENESS,
ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T FEEL
THEY HAVE JUSTICE?
>> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT.
OUR TRADITION, IF THERE'SANYTHING THAT'S DEEP AND
PERVASIVE THERE, IS THAT WE
ENJOY THE POWER OF THE LORD
AND HIS FORGIVENESS AND
REDEMPTION.
I THINK IT'S HELPFUL IN
INSTANCES LIKE THIS TO TALK
ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
MY BEING -- RIGHTING MYSELF,
IF YOU WILL, BEFORE THE LORD
BY SINCERE REPENTANCE FOR WHAT
I HAVE DONE, BY MY EFFORTS TO
ATONE FOR WHAT I HAVE DONE AND
MAKE REPARATIONS FOR IT TO
THOSE I HAVE OFFENDED, AND
LET'S ASSUME THAT SOMEBODY
DOES THAT TO THE VERY BEST
DEGREE POSSIBLE.
IT'S STILL NOT THE SAME AS
BEING RESTORED TOTALLY AND
FULLY TO THE POSITION FROM
WHICH THESE OFFENSES SPRUNG.
TO THE HURT AND PAIN OF THE
VICTIMS, ONE THING YOU LEARN,
IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT BEFORE,
IS THAT THE IMPACT OF ABUSE ON YOUNG PEOPLE IS PROFOUND,
LONG-LASTING, AND HAS
CONSEQUENCES IN THEIR LIVES
THAT ARE NOT EASILY DEALT
WITH.
SO I MEAN THERE'S NO WAY THAT
-- I MEAN WE CAN STAND IN
SUPPORT OF THEM AS THEY DEAL
WITH THIS, BUT THE PROCESS OF
DEALING WITH THE PAIN IS A
SLOW ONE AND A VERY
CHALLENGING ONE.
>> Gary Walker: WE ONLY HAVE A
COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT, BUT
LET ME ASK YOU SOME QUICK
QUESTIONS.
ACCORDING TO CANON LAW, A
PRIEST ONCE BANNED FROM
PRACTICE IS STILL A PRIEST AND
UNDER YOUR CARE AS BISHOP FOR
LIFE.
>> YES.
>> Gary Walker: IT'S YOUR
CHARGE TO TAKE CARE OF THESE
MEN.
HOW ARE YOU TAKING CARE OFTHESE MEN?
>> YOU'RE RIGHT,
WE HAVE CERTAIN OBLIGATIONS
THAT PERDURE, WHETHER THEY'RE
IN GOOD STANDING OR NOT.
IN QUICK RESPONSE, WE'LL BE IN
NEGOTIATION WITH EACH OF THEM
PERSONALLY ABOUT THE RESOURCES
AVAILABLE TO THEM AND WE'LL
NEGOTIATE WHAT WE NEED TO DO
TO ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE --
I'M GOING TO USE THE TERM "A
DECENT, DIGNIFIED LIFE."
>> Gary Walker: THEY CAN NO
LONGER PRACTICE AS PRIESTS;
THEY CAN'T WEAR THE CLOTH OF
THE CLERGY.
>> RIGHT.
>> Gary Walker: THEY CAN'T
WORK IN A PARISH OR DIOCESAN
SETTING.
WILL THEY BE WORKING OUTSIDE?
WILL THEY BE WORKING IN
PUBLIC?
WHERE WILL THEY GO?
>> THEY'RE CERTAINLY FREE TODO THAT.
IF THEY SEEK AND FIND
EMPLOYMENT, THEY CAN DO THAT,
AND I EXPECT SOME WILL DO
THAT.
>> Gary Walker: AND STAY IN
THIS COMMUNITY?
>> SURE.
THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT.
I HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO BAR
THEM FROM LIVING IN THE
COMMUNITY OR WHERE THEY CHOOSE
TO LIVE.
I CAN HAVE THAT SAY OVER
LIVING IN PARISH FACILITIES,
BUT I CAN'T EXPEL THEM FROM
ROCHESTER OR MONROE COUNTY OR
A DIOCESE.
>> Gary Walker: I HAVE TO ASK
YOU A MONEY QUESTION.
THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE, I
GUESS, ACCORDING TO "THE
WASHINGTON POST," ABOUT $15
BILLION IN ASSETS FOR THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH, ALREADY $1
BILLION PAID OUT IN SOME OFTHESE LAWSUITS.
SOME CHURCHES ARE NOW FIGHTING
-- SOME DIOCESE ARE FIGHTING
THE LAWSUITS.
IN THE ONE IN BOSTON, THEY'RE
ACTUALLY GOING TO COURT, AND
THERE'S VERY -- UGLINESS THAT
OCCURS IN COURT.
I HAVE TO ASK YOU: HOW IS THE
BISHOP OF ROCHESTER GOING TO
HANDLE THESE LAWSUITS WHICH
ARE BOUND TO COME, THE CIVIL
SUITS?
DO WE HAVE ENOUGH FINANCIAL
WHEREWITHAL TO WITHSTAND THAT?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT
THAT?
>> WE HAVEN'T HAD LAWSUITS IN
QUITE SOME TIME.
WE WERE EXCLUDED FROM THE CASE
YOU MENTIONED AS OUR
CONVERSATION BEGAN, BUT WE
OFFERED TO BE OF ASSISTANCE TO
THE VICTIM OUT OF A SENSE OF
MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO
SOMEONE INJURED BY SOMEONEACTING IN THE NAME OF THE
CHURCH.
BUT WE HAVE PAID OUT VERY
LITTLE MONEY OVER THE LAST TEN
YEARS, LESS THAN -- I THINK
IT'S AROUND -- SLIGHTLY OVER
$200,000, MOST OF WHICH WAS
FOR COUNSELLING AND SUPPORT OF
VICTIMS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE
HOLDS.
>> Gary Walker: ARE REVENUES
DOWN?
>> NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE,
ALTHOUGH JUST THIS MORNING
BEFORE I CAME HERE, I ASKED IF
WE COULD JUST TAKE A SOUNDING
OF OUR PARISH COMMUNITIES TO
SEE IF THAT'S OCCURRED.
I HAVE NO INDICATION THAT IT
HAS, BUT SOMEBODY AT A MEETING
SAID, "WE OUGHT TO CHECK INTO
THAT."
I SAID, "YES, WE CAN DO THAT.
LET'S FIND OUT."
MY GUESS IS THERE HAS BEEN NODROP-OFF, BUT I MAY FIND OUT
DIFFERENT.
>> Gary Walker: AND, BISHOP
CLARK, THAT IS OUR TIME.
I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BEING
HERE AND I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR SHARING, AND HOPEFULLY WE
CAN COME BACK TO YOU AS THIS
STORY PROGRESSES AND DEEPENS
AND GET YOUR INSIGHT AND INPUT
AND PERHAPS --
>> THANKS, GARY.
I WOULD BE HAPPY TO COME BACK.
SURE.
THANK YOU.
>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU.
THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE
FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
NOW, FOR MORE INFORMATION ON
THIS ISSUE AND THE CATHOLIC
DIOCESE OF ROCHESTER IN
GENERAL, JUST LOG ON TO OUR
WEB SITE, wxxi.org/ntk.
WHILE YOU'RE THERE, YOU CAN
ALSO TAKE PART IN OUR WEEKLY
INTERNET POLL, AND FOR COMPREHENSIVE DAILY COVERAGE
OF STATE ISSUES AND NEWS, IT'S
NYcitizens.org.
AND NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS
WEEK'S EDITION OF THE
"BUSINESS SECTION" WITH "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
(Music)
>> Gary Walker: JOINING US NOW
IN STUDIO IS ELLEN ROSEN,
BUSINESS EDITOR FOR THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
WELCOME, ELLEN.
>> Ellen Rosen: THANKS, GARY.
>> Gary Walker: LOOKED AT YOUR
PAPER, FRONT-PAGE BUSINESS
STORY ON TUESDAY ABOUT THESE
EMPIRE ZONES DOWNTOWN.
BUSINESS AGREE IN THIS ZONE
THAT THEY'LL GET SOME TAX
BREAKS IF THEY INCREASE THEIR
EMPLOYMENT.
BUT THESE ZONES HAVE BEEN
GOING ON FOREVER, IT SEEMS
LIKE.
IS THIS ONE ANY DIFFERENT?
>>
Ellen Rosen: WELL, THIS IS
ACTUALLY AN EXTENSION OF AN
EXISTING ZONE WITHIN THE CITY.
WHAT AN EMPIRE ZONE IS IS IT'S
TWO SQUARE MILES.
IT NEED NOT BE CONTIGUOUS AND
YOU CAN SPREAD IT AROUND IN A
JURISDICTION TO WHERE YOU
THINK IT WILL DO THE MOST
GOOD.
THERE'S A SECOND EMPIRE ZONE
IN THIS COUNTY WHICH IS IN
GATES FOR THE ROCHESTER
TECHNOLOGY PARK.
AT ONE POINT YOU MAY REMEMBER,
THE CITY EXTENDED THE SAME
ZONE TO HENRIETTA SO THAT THEY
COULD GET CORNING HERE UNDER
THE EMPIRE ZONE TAX BREAK, BUT
PART OF THIS DEAL, THEY TOOK
IT BACK.
BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT
THIS ONE IS THEY'RE TARGETING
THE MIDTOWN AREA.
IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE A VERY
FOCUSED ISSUE OF DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT.
WE HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT
DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT, BUT
THIS TIME THEY'RE TALKING
SPECIFICS OF REDEVELOPMENT AND
JOB CREATION.
>> Gary Walker: SO IT'S KIND
OF MOVING AWAY FROM THE
MANUFACTURING TYPE OF JOB THAT
THEY WERE LOOKING FOR AND
MOVING IT TO MORE SERVICE AND
RETAIL?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, YES,
THREE OF THE BUSINESSES
COVERED WITHIN ARE HOTELS:
THE HYATT, THE SHERATON AND
THE CROWNE PLAZA.
SO IT'S VERY INTERESTING AS TO
WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE OF
HOW THEY WILL INCREASE
EMPLOYMENT.
MIDTOWN PLAZA CAME UNDERNEATH
IT.
THE OWNER THERE SAYS HE'S NOT
READY TO DISCUSS WHAT EXACTLY
THEY'RE GOING TO DO, BUT HE'SREALLY FOCUSING ON DEVELOPING
THAT OFFICE AREA WITHIN THE
COMPLEX FIRST AND THEN HOPING
THAT THERE WILL BE ENOUGH
TRAFFIC IN THERE TO GENERATE A
NEED FOR MORE RETAIL.
>> Gary Walker: WELL, THAT'S
ADMITTEDLY A CHANGE OF
PHILOSOPHY.
SO THE ZONES HAVE TO BE SO
BIG?
THEY CAN ONLY BE A SQUARE
MILE?
>> Ellen Rosen: UP TO TWO
SQUARE MILES.
>> Gary Walker: I SEE.
SO IS THE -- WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT THIS TIME THEN
IS THE ACTUAL FOOTPRINT OF
THAT ZONE IS CHANGING RIGHT
NOW?
>> Ellen Rosen: YES.
>> Gary Walker: SO SOME AREAS
ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE IT AND
THE DOWNTOWN WILL?
>> Ellen Rosen: NO, THE AREA-- THEY HAD NOT FILLED THE
ENTIRE AREA BEFORE.
THEY HAD NOT USED THE ENTIRE
TWO SQUARE MILES.
NOW, THE STATE HAS TO SIGN OFF
ON THIS, BUT THAT'S USUALLY
NOT A MAJOR THING.
THEY USUALLY AGREE WITH
DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE.
CITY COUNCIL JUST VOTED ON
THIS THE OTHER NIGHT.
WE'LL BE WATCHING TO SEE
ACTUALLY WHAT ARE THEIR
EXPECTATIONS AND HOW WILL THEY
KNOW?
UNLIKE THE COMIDA DEALS, THE
COUNTY OF MONROE INDUSTRIAL
DEVELOPMENT AGENCY, BUSINESSES
HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME,
USUALLY THREE YEARS, TO
DEVELOP JOBS.
EMPIRE ZONE DOESN'T CALL FOR
THAT, SO WE'RE REALLY
WONDERING WHAT THE CITY IS
GOING TO USE TO EARMARK
WHETHER THIS IS WORKING OR NOT.
>> Gary Walker: IS IT A CASE
WHERE THE CITY NEGOTIATES WITH
THE COMPANIES THAT ARE IN
THERE, OR DO THEY THINK IF
THEY ZONE IT, THEY WILL COME?
>> Ellen Rosen: THAT'S KIND OF
WHAT IT IS.
IT'S GIVEN OVER TO THE
PROPERTY AND THEN DEVELOPERS
USE IT TO ENTICE PEOPLE TO
COME.
YOU KNOW, LAWRENCE COHEN, WHO
OWNS MIDTOWN, CAN SAY TO A
BUSINESS, "YOU CAN COME SET UP
HERE BECAUSE I HAVE ALL OF
THESE TAX BREAKS."
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN
INCENTIVE TO LOCATE HERE AS
OPPOSED TO OTHER PLACES.
>> Gary Walker: SPEAKING OF
JOBS, GOOD SHIFT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT EXCELLUS.
THEY ARE NOW -- THERE'S A LOT
OF REPORTING ABOUT THEM.
SOME SALARIES WERE IN THEPAPER AND ALL THAT.
BUT I'M MORE INTERESTED IN THE
ACTUAL HEALTH OF THAT
BUSINESS.
HOW DO YOU JUDGE THE HEALTH OF
A COMPANY LIKE EXCELLUS?
IS IT JUST BY HOW MANY PEOPLE
ARE SIGNED UP?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, IT'S
VERY HARD TO DO THAT.
EXCELLUS RIGHT NOW -- THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS, THEY HAVE
BEEN REALLY ON A MERGER TEAR.
THEY TOOK OVER UNIVERA, AND
THAT WAS LIKE 360,000 MEMBERS
THAT THEY ADDED.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS YOU
JUDGE.
AND YOU JUDGE BY -- THERE ARE
FINANCIALS YOU CAN LOOK AT,
TOO.
THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT
THAN BUSINESSES, BUT THERE ARE
OTHER FINANCIAL OUTLOOKS,
THINGS THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT.
>> Gary Walker: SO HOW ARETHEY DOING?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, THEIR
ENROLLMENT IS DOWN SLIGHTLY,
BUT IT'S HARD TO TELL -- IT'S
DOWN, I THINK, 30,000 FROM
WHERE IT WAS A YEAR AGO, BUT
IT'S STILL 2.6 MILLION AS
COMPARED TO 200,000 MEMBERS
FOR PREFERRED CARE.
SO THEY'RE STILL THE MAJOR
DOMINANT INSURER, BUT THERE'S
MORE COMPETITION COMING IN.
AETNA'S COMING IN AND WE MAY
SEE OTHERS LIKE THAT.
SO THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO
HAVE TO STAY VERY FOCUSED ON
GROWING AND EXPANDING.
EXCELLUS IS REALLY GOING TO
HAVE TO FOCUS ITSELF SO THEY
CAN KEEP GROWING.
>> Gary Walker: WHAT'S COMING
IN THE SUNDAY PAPER IN THE
BUSINESS SECTION?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, WE'RE
GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE
STATE OF THE PRINTING INDUSTRYIN ROCHESTER.
IT MAY SURPRISE YOU.
>> Gary Walker: YOU'RE CHIEF
AMONG THAT, AREN'T YOU?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT PRINT SHOPS --
AVANTI/CASE-HOYT, COHBER
PRINTING, FLOWER CITY
PRINTING, THINGS LIKE THAT.
IT REALLY MAY SURPRISE YOU,
BOTH THE SIZE AND THE
REPUTATION.
THIS COMMUNITY HAS A
NATIONAL/INTERNATIONAL
REPUTATION IN PRINTING.
>> Gary Walker: AND WE WILL
SEE THAT IN THE SUNDAY
"THE
DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE"
IN
THE BUSINESS SECTION.
>> Ellen Rosen: YES, YOU WILL.
>> Gary Walker: ELLEN, THANKS
FOR JOINING US.
NOW, FOR MORE INFORMATION ON
THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED
TO KNOW," JUST LOG ON TO
wxxi.org/ntk.THAT'S
ALL THE TIME WE HAVE
FOR THIS WEEK'S PROGRAM.
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
(Music)