>>
Gary: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," FRIENDS OF SENECA PARK PROPOSE
AN ALTERNATIVE TODAY TO THE COUNTY'S PLAN TO EXPAND THE SENECA
PARK ZOO. THE COUNTY WANTS TO PROVIDE MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO
WALK AND TALK WITH THE ANIMALS, BUT MANY FEEL IT WILL BE AT
THE EXPENSE OF AN HISTORIC GLOBAL PARK. WE'LL EXPLORE THE CONTROVERSY
NEXT. PLUS WXXI AM 1370 RADIO'S BOB SMITH JOINS US TO OUTLINE
THEIR CONTINUING COVERAGE OF THE PROPOSED EXPANSION. SENECA
PARK ZOO VERSUS SENECA PARK COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
WE SEE THIS AS BACKWARDS. WE'VE ALREADY GOT IT THROUGH TREASURE.
WHY NOT JUST IMPROVE THAT? IT CERTAINLY NEEDS IMPROVEMENT.
>>
THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS
PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>>
"NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION,
BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>>
Gary: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. EXPANSION OF
THE SENECA PARK ZOO IS MAKING HEADLINES AGAIN. EARLIER TODAY,
THE SENECA PARK ALLIANCE ANNOUNCED AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE COUNTY
ZOO DEVELOPMENT PLAN. THEY PROPOSE RUNNING TWO 40-FOOT TRAMS
ON A TWO-MILE ROUTE STARTING AT THE PARK'S GORGE AND STOPPING
AT THE MAPLEWOOD PLAYGROUND BEFORE CROSSING THE GENESEE RIVER
AND COMPLETING THE JOURNEY WITH A LOOP AROUND THE TROUT POND
AREA AT SENECA PARK. THE ALLIANCE ANNOUNCED THEIR ALTERNATIVE
TO AN IN-RESPONSE ACCOUNT EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE'S REVISED DEVELOPMENT
PLAN TO ENLARGE THE ZOO FROM 12 ACRES TO 35 ACRES WITHIN SENECA
PARK OVER THE NEXT 15 TO 20 YEARS AT A COST OF $65 MILLION.
THE DRAFT ALSO CALLS FOR $1 MILLION FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE
297-ACRE SENECA PARK. THE ISSUE IS PARTISAN. DEMOCRATS AND THE
COUNTY LEGISLATURE ARE PREPARING TO FIGHT THE COUNTY'S PROPOSAL.
PROPONENTS OF THE ZOO'S DEVELOPMENT SAY EXPANSION WILL MAKE
THE ZOO A TOURIST DESTINATION AND WILL ALMOST DOUBLE YEARLY
ATTENDANCE. THEY CLAIM A BIGGER ZOO WILL HELP THEM ATTRACT LARGER
ANIMALS AND EXHIBITS AND ALLOW THEM TO FURTHER CARRY OUT THE
ZOO'S MISSION, EDUCATION, CONSERVATION AND RECREATION. OPPONENTS
OF THE EXPANSION SAY THE PROJECT WILL DESTROY AN HISTORIC PARK
AND LESSEN THE SURROUNDING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. "NEED TO
KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS LOOKS AT BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY.
>>
IT MAY NOT LOOK LIKE THAT MUCH ON A PLANNED, CUTE LITTLE DRAWING,
BUT IN REALITY, WHEN YOU SENSE WHAT THIS SORT OF THING IS GOING
TO MEAN, THAT IS REALLY THE END OF THE SERENITY OF THE PARK.
>>
Matt: PETER SIEGRIST BELIEVES THE PLAN WILL DESTROY THE PARK.
HE WORKS FOR THE LANDMARK SOCIETY AND HEADS UP THE SENECA PARK
ALLIANCE, ABOUT NINE LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS PROTESTING THE COUNTY
ZOO EXPANSION PROJECT.
>>
IT WILL AFFECT THE AESTHETICS OF THE PARK. THERE WILL BE AN
INCREASE IN TRAFFIC, A DETRIMENT TO SAFETY IN THE PARK. ALL
THE TRAFFIC HAS TO GO INTO THE PARKING LOT AND THEN CURVE AROUND
AND COME BACK OUT, SO THERE ARE 600 CARS DRIVING AROUND THE
LOWER PARK THAT WE DO NOT HAVE NOW.
>>
Matt: BUT WE SHOULD, ACCORDING TO GAYLE RATHBURN, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE SENECA PARK ZOO SOCIETY. NO ONE FROM THE COUNTY
EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE WOULD GO ON CAMERA WITH US, BUT RATHBURN
SAYS EXPANSION WILL INCREASE ATTENDANCE FROM 400,000 TO 750,000
VISITORS ANNUALLY, WHICH MAY BE HELPFUL FOR THE PARK AS WELL
AS THE ZOO.
>>
I BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS THAT THERE'S GOING TO
BE MORE TRAFFIC INTO THE LOWER PARK AND MORE RESIDENTS OF MONROE
COUNTY ARE GOING TO BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT IT EVEN EXISTS.
AS I SAID, RIGHT NOW ZOO ATTENDANCE IS ROUGHLY 400,000 PEOPLE
A YEAR. I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THAT AT LEAST 35 TO 40% OF THOSE
PEOPLE, AND PROBABLY MORE, DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THE LOWER PARK
EXISTS; AND IF THEY WERE TO COME TO THE ZOO VIA AN ENTRANCE
THAT'S OFF THE LOWER PARK, I THINK THEY WOULD BE OVERWHELMED
WITH THE BEAUTY OF THE LOWER PARK.
>> Matt: THE COUNTY'S PLAN WILL ENLARGE THE ZOO TO ABOUT 35
ACRES, ALMOST THREE TIMES ITS CURRENT SIZE.
>>
AN INCREASE IN THE SIZE OF THE ZOO IS GOING TO INCREASE THE
NOISE, THE ODORS AND LIGHTING, OF COURSE, ALL OF WHICH AFFECTS
THE NEIGHBORHOOD SMACK UP TO THE SIDE OF THIS PLACE.
>>
Matt: MUCH OF THE GROUP'S FRUSTRATION COMES FROM A BELIEF THE
COUNTY DIDN'T FULLY CONSIDER PUBLIC INPUT FOR ALTERNATIVE DEVELOPMENT
PLANS.
>> OUR FEELING, AS PART OF THE SENECA PARK ALLIANCE IS THAT
THE ENTIRE PROCESS WAS DONE ON JUST ONE PLAN AND NO ALTERNATIVES
WERE LOOKED AT; NOTHING LIKE A SMALLER ZOO OR A ZOO WITH A DIFFERENT
MIX OF ANIMALS THAT WERE LESS COSTLY, LESS SPACE-CONSUMING.
THEY DID NOT LOOK STRONGLY AT ALTERNATIVE PARKING SOLUTIONS.
THEY DIDN'T LOOK AT OTHER LOCATIONS. THEY DIDN'T LOOK AT THE
SHUTTLE SERVICE. THEY DID NOT LOOK AT A SPLIT ZOO IDEA WHERE
THEY WOULD HAVE SMALLER ANIMALS IN THE PARK AND THEN BIGGER
ANIMALS IN A DIFFERENT SETTING.
>>
Matt: RATHBURN SAYS COUNTY PLANNERS DID CONSIDER OTHER OPTIONS
BUT FOUND NO BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
>>
WHEN YOU HAVE TWO FACILITIES, YOU DOUBLE A LOT OF YOUR OPERATIONAL
EXPENSES. YOU HAVE TO MAN TWO GATES. YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO CASH
REGISTER SYSTEMS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO KINDS OF SECURITY SYSTEMS.
SHUTTLE BUSES ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AND, AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE
SOME PARKING ON-SITE AND SOME PARKING OFF-SITE, PEOPLE NEVER
KNOW IS THE PARKING LOT FULL? WHICH PARKING LOT SHOULD I GO
TO? IS THE SHUTTLE BUS RUNNING? I KNOW ONE OF THE OTHER CRITICISMS
HAS BEEN THAT THE ZOO OUGHT TO MOVE. THAT WAS INVESTIGATED THOROUGHLY
SEVERAL YEARS AGO BEFORE THE DECISION WAS MADE TO MAKE MAJOR
INVESTMENTS HERE WITH THE GENESEE TRAIL AND ROCKY COAST EXHIBIT.
IT WAS ABANDONED AS AN IDEA THAT WASN'T PRACTICAL FOR THIS COMMUNITY.
>> Matt: IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONTROVERSY IS THE CITY OF ROCHESTER,
WHICH OWNS THE LAND THE ZOO IS BUILT ON. NOW THEY SAY THEY'RE
NOT AGAINST EXPANDING THE ZOO BUT BELIEVE THE COUNTY MUST GO
THROUGH PROPER CHANNELS IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A SPECIAL USE PERMIT
BEFORE STARTING ANY DEVELOPMENT. AND THEY SAY THEY'RE PREPARED
TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION IF THEY DON'T.
>>
YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE SPEAKING ON A NUMBER
OF OCCASIONS IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, ONE ON ONE OF YOUR RADIO
PROGRAMS, THAT THERE WAS A COURT OF APPEALS CASE ABOUT A DECADE
AGO WHICH SAID THEY NEVER HAVE TO COME FOR APPROVAL, AND THAT'S
NOT WHAT THE COURT OF APPEALS CASE SAID.
>>
Matt: LINDA KINGSLEY IS THE CORPORATION COUNCIL FOR THE CITY
OF ROCHESTER. SHE SAYS THE CITY'S POSITION RESTS ON THAT COURT
OF APPEALS CASE RULING.
>>
THE COURT OF APPEALS CASE SAID IT IS A BALANCING TEST BALANCING
THE INTEREST OF THE HOST GOVERNMENTAL UNIT, WHICH IS THE CITY,
AND THE IMPOSING GOVERNMENTAL UNIT, WHICH IS THE COUNTY; AND
IN EACH CASE THAT HAS TO BE LOOKED AT AND WEIGHED. AND HERE
WE HAVE THE SITUATION WHERE WE OWN THE LAND. IT'S A MAJOR POTENTIAL
DESTRUCTION OF PARKLAND IN THE CITY. OUR CITIZENS HAVE RAISED
EXTREME CONCERNS. THERE ARE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES. I THINK THE
BALANCING TEST WEIGHS IN FAVOR OF THEM HAVING TO COME TO THE
CITY FOR THE NECESSARY APPROVALS.
>>
Matt: IN THE END, SIEGRIST AND THE SENECA PARK ALLIANCE SAY
THE COUNTY HAS TO COME TO A REALIZATION OF SENECA PARK'S LIMITATIONS.
>>
WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THAT, WITHIN SENECA PARK, WE
WILL NEVER HAVE A WORLD-CLASS ZOO. THERE ISN'T ENOUGH MONEY
IN THE COMMUNITY TO FUND THAT SORT OF THING AND THERE ISN'T
ENOUGH SPACE IN THE PARK TO HAPPEN. EVEN IF THIS ZOO TAKES OVER
THE ENTIRE PARK, IT STILL ISN'T THE PLACE FOR A MAJOR ZOO.
>>
Gary: LAST YEAR THE PRESERVATION LEAGUE OF NEW YORK STATE CAME
OUT WITH ITS SEVEN TO SAVE LIST AND SENECA PARK WAS ON IT. SEVEN
TO SAVE IS A LISTING OF ENDANGERED STATE AND NATIONAL LANDMARKS
THAT ARE CONSIDERED TO BE REPLACEABLE LINKS TO NEW YORK'S HERITAGE.
NOW THE LEAGUE PLACED SENECA PARK ON THEIR LIST AS A DIRECT
RESULT OF THE COUNTY PROPOSAL EXPANSION. JOINING ME IN STUDIO
NOW TO DISCUSS THE IMPACTS ARE COUNTY LEGISLATURE PRESIDENT
DENNIS PELLETIER AND DEMOCRATIC MINORITY LEADER TODD BULLARD.
GENTLEMEN, THANKS FOR TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR BUSY DAY. I KNOW
YOU HAVE A LOT OF WORK AHEAD OF YOU. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OVERALL
GOAL, AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WE SPEAK TO SAY, WELL,
WHAT'S THE GOAL HERE? ARE WE GOING TO HAVE, LIKE, A GOOD LOCAL,
SOLID ATTRACTION FOR RESIDENTS OF MONROE COUNTY OR ARE WE BUILDING
SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE ATTRACTING TOURISTS AND HAVE ROCHESTER
BECOME A DESTINATION SITE FOR VACATION?
>>
WELL, IF YOU DON'T MIND, TODD, I'LL RESPOND TO THAT AS TO WHAT
MY PERCEPTION OF IT IS. I DON'T THINK THIS IS PERCEIVED AS BEING
A NATIONAL TOURIST ATTRACTION SITE. OBVIOUSLY IT'S VIEWED AS
BEING ONE OF THE BETTER ZOOS IN UPSTATE REGION, PERHAPS EASTERN
HALF OF THE UNITED STATES. OVERALL, THE MAJOR GOAL WAS TO INCREASE
THE VIABILITY OF THE ROCHESTER AREA TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN YOUNG
EMPLOYERS, BE ABLE TO HAVE AMENITIES THAT PERHAPS PEOPLE WANT
TO VISIT, WANT TO STAY HERE, WANT TO LIVE HERE; YOUNG FAMILIES
WANT TO PERHAPS RELOCATE HERE. I THINK IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING
THE EXECUTIVE WAS LOOKING AT A WAY OF KEEPING AND RETAINING
UNFORTUNATELY SOME OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WE DO HAVE LEAVING
THE AREA TODAY.
>>
Gary: SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE HERE?
>>
IT'S A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE.
>>
Gary: Mr. BULLARD?
>>
OUR POSITION IS THAT SOME MODEST ZOO EXPANSION MAY BE APPROPRIATE,
BUT WE THINK IT COMES DOWN TO AN ISSUE OF SPENDING PRIORITIES
AND LACK OF COMMUNITY INPUT AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THAT INPUT.
AND I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 65-MILLION-DOLLAR
PRICE TAG OR THE 85-MILLION-DOLLAR PRICE TAG AND YOU LOOK AT
THE FACT THAT GENESEE HOSPITAL CLOSED WITH A 60-MILLION-DOLLAR
DEBT AND YOU LOOK AT THE EXPENDITURE AND PROPOSED EXPENDITURE
OF TOBACCO MONEY ON THE ZOO, IT MAKES ONE WONDER WHAT IS THE
GOAL HERE? WHAT IS THE POINT? IS IT TO TRULY HELP THE COMMUNITY
OR IS IT TO FUNNEL A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BUILD A HUGE PARKING
LOT IN SENECA PARK ZOO AND MODERATELY EXPAND SOME OF THE ATTRACTIONS?
SO I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE VISION WAS AND WE CERTAINLY
WEREN'T CONSULTED WITH. IT WAS JUST ANNOUNCED IN APRIL OF 2000
THIS IS WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO WITH THE MONEY.
>>
Gary: LET'S ADDRESS THAT. BOTH OF YOU GENTLEMEN HAVE BEEN IN
POLITICS A LONG TIME, AND YOU KNOW THAT SOME THINGS ARE GOING
TO COME WITH CONTROVERSY OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU PROPOSE THEM. YOU'RE
GOING TO BUILD A 65-MILLION-DOLLAR PROJECT IN AN OLMSTED PARK,
CHANCES ARE THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME CONTROVERSY AROUND IT.
I'M INTERESTED, WHERE DO YOU FEEL THE IMPETUS FOR THIS PLAN
COMING FROM? DO YOU THINK IT'S COMING FROM -- IS IT COMING FROM
THE EXECUTIVES' OFFICE? IS IT COMING FROM CITIZENS? IS IT COMING
FROM THE ZOO ORGANIZATIONS THEMSELVES, ALL OF THE ABOVE?
>>
I THINK A COMBINATION. I THINK THE ZOO SOCIETY -- THERE HAS
BEEN AN APPROVED PLAN SINCE 1991 TO EXPAND THE ZOO.
>>
Gary: A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT. THAT HAS BEEN FOR
TEN YEARS NOW.
>>
THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE LEGISLATURE, SO THAT PLAN HAS ALREADY
BEEN APPROVED AND THERE WAS HOPES OF AN EXPANSION. I THINK THE
ZOO SOCIETY WAS LOOKING AT EXPANDING THE ZOO AND, IN CONSULTATION
WITH THE EXECUTIVE, THE EXECUTIVE REALIZING THAT WE DO NEED
TO RETAIN PEOPLE AND PERHAPS DRAW PEOPLE HERE, SAW A NEED FOR
A QUALITY OF LIFE KIND OF ISSUE. I THINK THAT HE LOOKED AT THIS
AS ONE THAT COULD BE DOABLE. CERTAINLY THE '91 MASTER PLAN WAS
CALLING FOR AN EXPANSION OF THE ZOO, SO I THINK IT'S A CULMINATION
OF THOSE THINGS.
>> Gary: AND I DON'T THINK I'VE HEARD ANYWHERE SOMEONE SAY,
NO, WE SHOULD NOT EXPAND THE ZOO. THIS REALLY HAS BEEN ON THE
TABLE FOR A LONG TIME. IF YOU GO TO THE PARK ON ANY WEEKEND,
IF YOU GO TO THE ZOO ON ANY WEEKEND, YOU KNOW THAT IT'S AN INSTITUTION
ON THE MOVE. IT'S GOT (Chuckling) IT HAS LOTS OF TRAFFIC. IT'S
GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING TO IT. AND IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM
-- IF YOU'VE TAKEN THE 5,000-FOOT VIEW DOWN IN LOOKING AT IT,
IT'S OVERCROWDED RIGHT NOW.
>>
IT'S FUNNY. I'M PROBABLY THE ONE HERE WITH THE YOUNGEST CHILDREN.
I HAVE BEEN TO THE ZOO QUITE A BIT. IT'S MORE THAN JUST A ZOO
THOUGH. IT'S A PARK THAT'S VERY PEACEFUL AND VERY SERENE, AND
IT'S AN URBAN PARK. BUT, NOTWITHSTANDING THAT, I THINK THE 1991
PLAN THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS VERY IMPORTANT HERE. WHEN
YOU LOOK AT THE FOOTPRINT THAT WAS PROPOSED, IT WAS A LOT SMALLER
IN SCALE THAN WHAT WE HAVE HERE. I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ALMOST
TRIPLING OR QUADRUPLING THE SIZE OF THE EXISTING PARK. SO I
THINK THAT SETS THE ISSUE HERE, AND THE DECISION, AND I THINK
DENNIS IS QUITE RIGHT, WAS MADE BY THE ADMINISTRATION SOLELY.
IT WAS MADE BY COUNTY EXECUTIVE DOYLE. IT WAS HIS VIEW AND HIS
VISION OF WHAT WOULD MAKE THIS COUNTY A MORE VIABLE PLACE FOR
YOUNG PEOPLE. AND IT'S INTERESTING --
(Talking
simultaneously)
ALLOW
ME TO FINISH. IT'S INTERESTING, BUT WE REALLY AREN'T LOSING
OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, ACCORDING TO THE CENSUS THAT I SAW. WE ACTUALLY
HAD A POPULATION GROWTH. BUT NOTWITHSTANDING THAT --
>>
ACCORDING TO THE CENSUS DATA, WE ARE, BUT THE -- REGARDLESS
OF THAT, LET ME GET BACK AND SAY I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY DIFFERENT
THAN THE MAYOR'S VISION OF DEVELOPING HIGH FALLS AREA. OKAY.
IT'S A QUALITY OF LIFE THING TO BRING IN BUSINESS HERE AND IT
WAS CONTROVERSIAL. A LOT OF PEOPLE FELT WE SHOULDN'T BE SPENDING
MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THEY DID, AND
I THINK WE'RE ALL HAPPY AS TO WHAT WE SEE THERE. AS A MATTER
OF FACT IT'S RIGHT CLOSE TO HERE.
>> Gary: IN OUR BACKYARD.
>>
YES.
>>
Gary: WE'RE HAPPY FOR IT. IT'S A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>>
RIGHT. AND, YOU KNOW, THIS WASN'T DONE IN A CLOAK OF SECRECY,
WHICH IS WHAT TODD WOULD LIKE TO SAY. THERE HAD BEEN, BEFORE
JACK EVEN INTRODUCED THE PLAN IN THE STATE OF THE COUNTY ADDRESS;
AND UP TO THEN, HE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE IT TO BE WIDELY KNOWN
BECAUSE IT WAS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT HE WAS UNVEILING THAT
EVENING, JUST LIKE THE MAYOR'S STATE OF THE CITY ADDRESS WAS
DONE IN THIS CLOAK OF SECRECY. HE DEVOTED HIMSELF I BELIEVE.
NOBODY KNEW WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY OR WHAT HE WAS GOING TO
DO, SO IT'S NOT UNUSUAL. BUT THERE WERE 22 MEETINGS WITH THE
PUBLIC THAT WAS INVITED TO SAY WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO AND
EXPAND. ODDLY ENOUGH, THE '91 PLAN ENCROACHED MORE ON THE POND
THAN WHAT THE REVISED VERSION DOES. SO THEY UNROLLED THE PLAN.
THERE WAS SOME COMMUNITY GROUPS THAT DIDN'T LIKE IT, AND THEY
WENT BACK AND REVISITED IT AND REVISED IT. ORIGINALLY 85 MILLION.
THAT'S RIGHT. TODD'S RIGHT. NOW IT'S DOWN TO 65 MILLION. SO
THEY HAVE LISTENED. THEY HAD CHANGE AND THEY HAVE CHANGED THE
SCOPE AND THE SIZE.
>>
Gary: I'D LOVE TO ADDRESS THE PUBLIC INPUT PART AT A LATER DATE.
I WANT TO STICK MORE TO THE MERITS OF THE ARGUMENTS AND I'D
LIKE TO HEAR IT. NOW THE PARK IS 297 ACRES, BUT IF YOU'VE BEEN
TO THE PARK YOU KNOW IT'S A LOT OF RIVER GORGE AND WETLANDS
AND SWAMP AREAS AND IT'S ABOUT 100 ACRES USABLE. I THINK MOST
PEOPLE AGREE WITH THAT. THE ZOO EXPANSION WOULD TAKE 35 ACRES
OF THAT 100-ACRE PARK. NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT IT -- IF YOU LOOK
AT THE MAP, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE RIVER. ON THE EAST SIDE OF
THE RIVER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THINGS LIKE THE UPPER FALLS
TERRACE PARK, MAPLEWOOD PARK; EDGERTON'S NOT TOO FAR AWAY, AND
WHEN YOU GO SOUTHEAST, OF COURSE YOU'VE GOT COPPS HILL. YOU'VE
GOT HIGHLAND. BUT IN THAT AREA, I MEAN REALLY SENECA PARK'S
IT, UNTIL YOU GO ALL THE WAY UP TO DURANT EASTMAN, WHICH IS
QUITE A HIKE. SO FOR THAT WHOLE EAST SIDE OF THE RIVER IN THAT
AREA, THE NORTHEAST SECTION OF THE CITY AND BORDERING ON IRONDEQUOIT,
SENECA PARK'S PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY GREEN SPACE IN A VERY URBAN
AREA. SO ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL ABOUT TAKING ONE THIRD OF
THAT LAND OFF?
>>
LET ME SAY THE '91 PLAN I THINK WAS GOING TO EXPAND IT FROM
THE CURRENT 12-AND-A-HALF, 13 ACRES UP TO 26 ACRES OR WHATEVER
IT WAS. THIS IS ABOUT 15 OR 12 ACRES MORE THAN WHAT THEY ORIGINALLY
WERE TALKING ABOUT. PART OF THE PLAN ALSO INCLUDES EXPANSION
OF WHAT WOULD BE THE NORTHERN END OF TROUT POND, ADDING SOME
SHELTERS, ADDING SOME REST ROOMS AND DIFFERENT AMENITIES THAT
AREN'T THERE NOW. AND THE AREA THAT REALLY SEEMS TO BE OF CONCERN
IS WHERE THE PARKING IS, AND THAT AREA RIGHT NOW IS REALLY NOT
BEING UTILIZED. IF YOU GO DOWN THERE AND YOU TAKE A RIDE THROUGH,
IT IS AN AREA THAT BASICALLY HAS OVERGROWTH, A LOT OF TREES
AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. THE AREA AROUND THE POND IS PROBABLY
THE MOST USED, AND THAT HAS SOME SHELTERS AND PICNIC AREAS AND
THINGS OF THAT NATURE. THAT REMAINS INTACT. AS A MATTER OF FACT
THOSE AMENITIES ARE EXPANDED AND ADDED TO, SO I THINK THEY TRIED
TO TAKE INTO -- UNDER ADVISEMENT, IF YOU WILL, THE NEEDS OF
THE RESIDENTS, THE PEOPLE THAT USE THE PARK, AND YET THE NEED
TO EXPAND THE ZOO.
>>
I WOULD LIKE TO JUST GET SOME FACTS HERE. NOW, THE ORIGINAL
ZOO MASTER PLAN CALLED FOR A TEN-ACRE EXPANSION. IT WOULD BE
UP TO 22 ACRES, WHICH IS A LOT DIFFERENT, OKAY?
>>
13 ACRES DIFFERENT.
>>
BUT THAT 13 ACRES...
(Talking
simultaneously)
>>
EXPANSION.
>> SURE.
>>
OKAY. 13 ACRES IS A LOT --
>>
WHICH DIDN'T INCLUDE ANY PARKING IN THAT ORIGINAL.
>>
OKAY. THAT IS WHAT THE ORIGINAL ZOO MASTER PLAN CALLED FOR,
WHICH WAS A CULMINATION OF A LOT OF WORK OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS,
AND THE CITY OF ROCHESTER WAS IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT. I THINK
THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. AND SECONDARILY, THERE WAS NO ENCROACHMENT
ON THE LOWER PARK, AND THAT'S KEY, TOO. AND THIRDLY, IT WAS
A LOT CHEAPER. I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 30 TO $40 MILLION.
>>
Gary: ALL RIGHT. I KNOW SOME OF THE DISAGREEMENT'S ABOUT SCOPE,
BUT WE HAVE A FEW MORE MINUTES HERE AND I REALLY WANT TO TALK
ABOUT THE PROCESS. THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS PROPOSED IT IS IN
THE LAPS OF THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE. YOU GENTLEMEN ARE GOING
TO BE KEY, AND WHETHER THIS IS A PLAN THAT'S GOING TO GO OR
NOT GO. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE CITY IN A MINUTE. MY QUESTION
IS IS THAT, Mr. PRESIDENT, DO YOU HAVE THE VOTES YOU NEED TO
BOND? YOU NEED A TWO-THIRDS VOTE OF THE LEGISLATURE. DO YOU
HAVE THAT?
>>
UHMM, UNTIL THE PLAN IS INTRODUCED, OKAY, AND I THINK IT IS
STILL BEING REVISED AND I THINK THAT IT HAS BEEN CHANGED. THE
SCOPE HAS BEEN CHANGED. ORIGINALLY THERE WERE 700 PARKING SPOTS.
NOW THERE ARE SIX. ORIGINALLY IT WAS PAVED. NOW 300 OF THEM
ARE SOFT PARKING, IF YOU WILL. I THINK THAT, IF THERE'S A FEELING
THAT THE CONCERNS OF THE RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN LISTENED TO, AND
I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH INDIVIDUALLY EVERY HOUSEHOLD
ALONG THAT AREA, AND THEY'VE HAD NUMEROUS MEETINGS WITH A LOT
OF GROUPS. AS YOU SAY, THERE ARE SOME ACCEPTABLE TERMS SOME
GROUPS HAVE. SOME WANT NOTHING. SOME WANT CERTAIN THINGS. I
THINK IF THE LEGISLATURE FEELS THAT THE CITIZENS HAVE BEEN LISTENED
TO AND SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS HAVE BEEN MET, WHICH I FEEL SOME
OF THEM HAVE, I THINK THAT WE HAVE THE VOTES OBVIOUSLY TO PASS
THE PLAN, WHICH WOULD TAKE 15 VOTES.
>>
Gary: RIGHT.
>>
AND BONDING WOULD BE 20 VOTES AND I HOPE WE WOULD HAVE THOSE
--
>>
Gary: BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE OF THAT.
>> NO, YOU'RE NEVER SURE. Mr. BULLARD WILL TELL YOU THAT.
>>
Gary: DOES Mr. PELLETIER HAVE 20 VOTES HE CAN COUNT ON THE BOND
FOR THIS?
>>
AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE I HAVE TALKED TO A COUPLE REPUBLICANS
WHO ARE UP IN THE AIR. I WOULD SAY DEFINITIVELY NO, HE DOES
NOT AT THIS POINT.
>> Gary: OKAY. LET ME SAY THIS NOW: THE CITY IS CLAIMING --
THE CITY OWNS THE LAND. THE COUNTY OPERATES IT. YOU'VE HEARD
SOME OF THE CONTROVERSY IN THAT PACKAGE. DOES THE CITY NEED
TO PLAY A ROLE IN THIS BEFORE THIS IS ALL SAID AND DONE? DO
THEY NEED TO HAVE ZONING? WHAT IS YOUR GUT FEELING?
>>
WELL, THE COUNTY'S POSITION IS THAT THEY DON'T, THAT THEY HAVE
AN OPERATING AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY. IT'S LONG TERM. I FORGET
HOW MANY YEARS, I THINK IT'S 90 YEARS OR WHATEVER IT IS -- Mr.
BULLARD MAY KNOW -- THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS, MAINTAIN,
CARE FOR AND TAKE CARE OF THE PARKS. I THINK THEY SEE THIS AS
A LOGICAL EXTENSION OF WHAT THEIR AGREEMENT IS, AND I THINK
THERE HAS BEEN A COURT RULING WHICH LINDA KINGSLEY REFERRED
TO IN THE PAST, THAT THE COUNTY FEELS THAT THEY ARE ON GOOD
GROUND BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP THIS WITHIN THEIR NORMAL DUTIES.
>>
Gary: WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS.
>> I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE ARE ONE COMMUNITY. THE CITY/COUNTY
ISSUE HAS GOT TO BE RESOLVED AND THE MUNICIPALITIES SHOULD RESPECT
EACH OTHER AND IT SHOULDN'T BE ONE TRYING TO BRUTALIZE THE OTHER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
>> I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE AND THINK
ABOUT THIS AND COME TO SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION.
>>
I DON'T THINK ONE IS TRYING TO BRUTALIZE THE OTHER.
>>
Gary: EXIT QUESTION, HAS GOT TO BE YES OR NO BASICALLY: WILL
THE PLAN THAT'S ON THE TABLE NOW CHANGE AGAIN BEFORE IT'S GOING
TO BE APPROVED BY THE LEGISLATURE? THAT'S WHERE FEELING?
>>
I THINK THERE MAY BE SOME SLIGHT CHANGES.
>>
I WOULD SAY YES, DEFINITIVELY, IF THEY WANT TO GET SOME TYPE
OF BONDING APPROVAL.
>>
Gary: OKAY. THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR DISCUSSION. I WANT
TO THANK VERY MUCH MY GUESTS FOR COMING HERE. THESE ARE THE
FOLKS THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE THE DECISION; THE MONROE COUNTY
LEGISLATURE IS THE BODY THAT WILL MAKE THAT DECISION, AND PUBLIC
INPUT IS INVITED. "NEED TO KNOW" ALSO HAS BEEN WORKING WITH
WXXI RADIO IN DEVELOPING THIS STORY AND IN JUST A MOMENT WE'RE
GOING TO TALK TO 1370 AM CONNECTION BOB SMITH. FIRST LET'S TAKE
A QUICK WALK TO THE PARK AND SEE WHERE THE EXPANSIONS ARE PROPOSED.
>>
THE ENTRANCE IS GOING TO BE BASICALLY RIGHT OVER HERE. IF YOU
LOOK, YOU SEE A COUPLE LARGE ROCKS UP THERE. THAT'S THE SNOWY
OWL EXHIBIT. AND THE ENTRANCE WOULD BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT
HILL AND WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME IN AT -- JUST ABOUT AT GRADE,
AND THERE WOULD BE SOME SWITCH-BACKS THAT WE ALLOW THEM TO COME
UP. THE INTENT IS TO HAVE AN ADIRONDACK STYLE BUILDING IN THE
ENTRANCE. THERE WOULD BE A WATERFALL SO IT WOULD BEGIN TO EVOKE,
YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE NATURAL AREAS WITHIN NEW YORK. THEN YOU
WOULD COME IN AND THERE WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME OFF
OF THAT ENTRANCE, OVER THIS WAY AND RIGHT OVER HERE THEN TO
MY LEFT IS WHERE THE ASIAN EXHIBIT IS GOING TO BE. AND THE ASIAN
EXHIBIT IS THE EXHIBIT THAT THE ZOO SOCIETY HAS ALREADY RAISED
MONEY FOR AND THE COUNTY HAS ALREADY COMMITTED MONEY FOR, AND
THAT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE SNOW LEOPARDS, TIGERS AND RED
PANDAS. WE'LL BRING RED PANDAS TO THE ZOO FOR THE FIRST TIME.
IF THE PLAN IS ADOPTED, IN ADDITION TO THAT, IT WILL INCLUDE
A NEW HOME FOR THE ORANGUTANS, WHICH IS DESPERATELY NEEDED.
WE'LL HAVE SNOW MONKEYS. THOSE ARE JAPANESE MACAQUES. IT'S ONE
OF THE -- ACTUALLY, I THINK IT IS THE ONLY PRIMATE THAT CAN
BE OUTSIDE IN A ROCHESTER WINTER. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED
SNOW MONKEYS, AND SO THEY PLAY WONDERFULLY IN THE SNOW. IT WILL
BE A WONDERFUL EXHIBIT. WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE SOME HOOF STOCK.
WE WILL MOVE THE GIBBONS FROM THE OLD BUILDING NOW INTO THAT
AREA AS WELL. SO THAT WOULD PROVIDE ONE LOOP OFF OF THE MAIN
ENTRANCE, AND THEN THERE WOULD BE A LOOP FOR ROCKY COAST. THEN
THERE WOULD BE A LOOP FOR THE AREA THAT IS KNOWN AS THE DISCOVERY
CENTER AND GENESEE TRAIL. AND THEN THERE WOULD BE A LOOP FOR
THE AFRICA EXHIBITS THAT WOULD BE ON THE FAR END OF THE ZOO
WHERE THE MAIN BUILDING IS NOW AND WHERE THE CURRENT PARKING
LOT IS.
>> Gary: WITH ME NOW IS BOB SMITH, HOST OF THE 1370 CONNECTION
ON WXXI AM 1370. BOB, IF ANYBODY IS IN TOUCH WITH PUBLIC INPUT,
THAT'S WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING DAY IN AND DAY OUT. YOU JUST
HEARD THE LEGISLATURE PRESIDENT AND MINORITY LEADER SAY THERE
WERE 20 MEETINGS, NONE VERY WELL ATTENDED REALLY BY AVERAGE
CITIZENS. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ON THE PHONE?
>>
WELL, WHAT WE'RE HEARING ON THE PHONES IS A LOT OF PASSION ON
ALL SIDES. REALLY IT DIVIDES DOWN TO TWO SEPARATE CAMPS. ONE
CAMP SAYS LET'S DO WHAT WE CAN FOR THE ANIMALS AND MAKE THE
BEST POSSIBLE EDUCATIONAL RESOURCE WE CAN. BY IMPLICATION YOU
WOULD SAY THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS PLAN
GO THROUGH IN PRETTY MUCH THE FORM IN WHICH IT'S BEEN PROPOSED.
THE OTHER CAMP, A MUCH LARGER CAMP AT THIS POINT, IF YOU JUDGE
BY THE CALL VOLUME, WHICH IS ADMITTEDLY AN IMPERFECT BAROMETER,
NOT A SCIENTIFIC ONE, SAYS NO; LET'S PRESERVE THE OLMSTED PARK.
WE LIKE THE IDEA OF A ZOO EXPANSION BUT SCALE IT BACK. TAILOR
IT TO THE NEEDS OF THE PARK AND TO THE INTERESTS OF PRESERVATION
OF THE PARK AND ITS SPIRIT.
>>
Gary: BOB, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS OFF-LINE, OFF CAMERA, IF
NOT ON THIS ISSUE, 100 ISSUES: PUBLIC INPUT, CITIZENS' INPUT.
WE JUST -- ALL THESE MEETINGS, AND I'M SURE THE LEGISLATURE
PRESIDENT DENNIS PELLETIER SAT HERE AND SAID WE'VE HAD THEM,
20, COUNT THEM, 20 MEETINGS, AND STILL THE PUBLIC DOESN'T FEEL
THEY'RE PART OF THIS SITUATION. SO WHAT'S THE LEGISLATURE TO
DO?
>> WELL, THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC'S
RELATIONSHIP TO THE LEGISLATURE AND TO ANY PUBLIC BODY OVER
THE LAST 30, 40 YEARS BECAUSE LIFE'S CHANGED. PEOPLE'S LIVES
ARE MUCH MORE HECTIC. THEY'RE MUCH BUSIER AND MORE DEMANDING
IN TERMS OF JUST MAKING A LIVING AND JUGGLING THE RESPONSIBILITIES
OF FAMILY, BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TWO-CAREER COUPLES NOW AS THE
NORM RATHER THAN THE EXCEPTION. YOU HAVE SINGLE PARENTS. FAMILY
STRUCTURES HAVE CHANGED, AND WITH EVERYTHING PEOPLE JUST DON'T
HAVE THE TIME TO TAKE PART IN THE WAY THEY'D LIKE TO.
>>
Gary: ON THAT NOTE, THOUGH, IF YOU DON'T PARTICIPATE, YOU'RE
GOING TO GET THE GOVERNMENT AND THE ZOO YOU DESERVE, RIGHT?
>>
EXACTLY. IT'S A DIFFICULT DILEMMA FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO SEE
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. THE PROCESS WAS VERY USER-FRIENDLY FOR
AN EARLIER TIME IN WHICH FAMILY STRUCTURES WERE DIFFERENT AND
THE PACE OF LIFE WAS DIFFERENT. NOW THEY HAVE TO MAKE ACCOMMODATIONS
THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO MAKE. THEY'VE GOT TO GO MORE TO WEEKEND
MEETINGS. THEY'VE GOT TO GO MORE TO ALTERNATIVE VENUES. THEY'VE
GOT TO GO MORE TO SEEKING INPUT BY THE INTERNET. THEY'VE GOT
TO FIND WAYS OF DOING THE SAME THING THEY USED TO BE ABLE TO
DO WITH THE TRADITIONAL MEETING ON A WEEKDAY AFTERNOON OR EVENING.
IT JUST DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE.
>>
Gary: BOB, JUDGING ON YOUR CALLS, IS THE USE OF TOBACCO MONEY
FOR THIS PROJECT, $3 MILLION, IS THAT POPPING AS AN ISSUE OR
IS THAT NOT?
>>
IT WAS POPPING AS AN ISSUE DURING THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE BELIEVED
THAT MOST OF THE ZOO PROJECT WAS GOING TO BE FUNDED BY TOBACCO
MONEY, AND THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO FEEL TOBACCO MONEY SHOULD
BE USED FOR OTHER THINGS THAT ARE PLANNED, BUT NOW THAT MOST
OF THAT MONEY'S BEEN DIVERTED TO THE JAIL EXPANSION PROJECT
INSTEAD OF FILING THAT IN THE TRADITIONAL WAY, THAT GOES OFF
THE RADAR AS FAR AS THE ZOO ISSUE PER SE. IT BECOMES STILL A
GENERAL ISSUE AND IT GETS LINKED TO THE FATE OF GENESEE HOSPITAL
QUITE OFTEN BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK THAT MONROE COUNTY SHOULD HAVE
DONE WHAT EERIE COUNTY DID FOR EERIE COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER,
AND THAT IS USE TOBACCO MONEY TO BOLSTER HEALTH CARE. DIDN'T
HAPPEN.
>>
Gary: YOU JUST TRIPPED -- ON THE POLITICS OF IT, YOU KNOW. BASICALLY
IT'S BREAKING DOWN DEMOCRAT/REPUBLICAN WHAT'S NEW IN COUNTY
GOVERNMENT. BUT WE ALSO HEARD DENNIS PELLETIER, THE LEGISLATURE
PRESIDENT; HE'S NOT SURE ABOUT THOSE 20 VOTES THEY NEED FOR
BONDING. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?
>>
THAT'S ABOUT THE SAME THING. IT'S VERY MUCH UP IN THE AIR. THERE
ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE LEGISLATURE WHO HAVE NOT DECLARED
PUBLICLY WHERE THEY STAND ON IT. I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME OF
THEM WHO FEEL THEY WANT TO WAIT TO SEE WHAT THEIR CONSTITUENTS
THINK AND SOME WHO WANT TO HEAR MORE DETAIL ABOUT HOW THIS IS
GOING TO UNFOLD AND HOW IT'S GOING TO BE PAID FOR.
>>
Gary: SO PEOPLE CAN STILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS ISSUE RIGHT
HERE AND NOW. IN THE COUPLE SECONDS WE HAVE LEFT, WHAT IS 1370
CONNECTION GOING TO BE DOING ON THIS?
>> BE LISTENING CLOSELY ON JULY 3rd AT NOON BECAUSE THE SAME
TWO GENTLEMEN, THE LEADERS OF THE RESPECTIVE PARTIES OF THE
MONROE COUNTY LEGISLATURE ARE GOING TO BE BACK. THEY'RE GOING
TO BE ON MY SHOW ON THE NOON HOUR ON TUESDAY THE 3rd, AND THEY'RE
GOING TO BE TAKING CALLS AND GETTING PUBLIC INPUT DIRECTLY ON
THIS ISSUE. THAT MAY BE THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT THOSE PEOPLE
GET A CHANCE TO GET.
>>
Gary: THERE YOU GO, JULY 3rd, 1370 CONNECTION ON AM 1370. BOB,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR UPCOMING
COVERAGE ON THIS POLITICALLY CHARGED ISSUE, AS HE ALWAYS DOES,
HE GETS PUBLIC INPUT AND MAYBE OUR PUBLIC HEARING. THERE YOU
HAVE THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW." NEXT WEEK WE'LL
TAKE A LOOK AT OUR LOCAL LABOR FORCE THAT'S NOT ONLY CHANGING;
IT'S DISAPPEARING. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.
(Music)