>>
Gary: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW", THE GOVERNOR LAID OUT HIS
PLANS FOR THE STATE THIS WEEK, AND IT LOOKS AS THOUGH UPSTATE
NEW YORK IS GETTING LOTS OF THE GOVERNOR'S ATTENTION. WE'LL
HAVE EXCERPTS OF THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH, REACTION FROM THE ASSEMBLY
SPEAKER AND WE'LL HEAR FROM DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS
IN THE STUDIO. IT'S ALL NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
Gary: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. THE STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH
IS NOT JUST A YEARLY REFLEX OR A PRESS OPPORTUNITY FOR GOVERNOR
PATAKI. IT'S THE WAY NEW YORK GOVERNORS MEET THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL
DUTY. ACCORDING TO THE STATE CONSTITUTION, THE GOVERNOR SHALL,
QUOTE, "COMMUNICATE BY MESSAGE TO THE LEGISLATURE AT EVERY SESSION
THE CONDITION OF THE STATE AND RECOMMEND SUCH MATTERS TO IT
AS HE SHALL JUDGE EXPEDIENT." THIS IS GOVERNOR PATAKI'S SEVENTH
ANNUAL MESSAGE TO THE LEGISLATURE. THE STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH
TRADITIONALLY KICKS OFF THE BEGINNING OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.
THIS YEAR IS NO DIFFERENT. THIS WEEK MARKED THE 224th ANNUAL
SESSION OF THE NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE. TAX REFORM, SCHOOL
AID REFORM, DRUG LAW REFORM, CENTERS OF EXCELLENCE, ALL TOPPED
THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH THIS WEEK. JOINING ME IN THE STUDIO TO
TALK ABOUT THE UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION, AND TO COMMENT
ON THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH, ARE TWO STATE SENATORS FROM OUR AREA.
DEMOCRAT RICK DOLLINGER, HE REPRESENTS THE 54th DISTRICT, AND
REPUBLICAN JIM ALESI REPRESENTS THE 55th DISTRICT. GENTLEMEN,
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. BEFORE WE TALK, LET'S FIRST TAKE A
LOOK AT SOME OF THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH. FIRST UP HE TALKS TAXES
AND ABOUT THE UPSTATE ECONOMY.
>>
Governor George E. Pataki: I ASK YOU TO CUT TAXES ON THE PEOPLE
OF NEW YORK FOR THE SEVENTH STRAIGHT YEAR. (Applause) THE BUDGET
I SUBMIT WILL EXPAND THE MOST AMBITIOUS TAX-CUTTING PROGRAM
IN THE NATION. THANKS TO STAR, THE AVERAGE SENIOR CITIZEN PAYS
55% LESS IN SCHOOL PROPERTY TAXES THAN THREE YEARS AGO. SOME
200,000 SENIORS NOW PAY NO SCHOOL PROPERTY TAXES AT ALL, NOT
ONE DIME. WHEN STAR IS FULLY PHASED IN THIS YEAR, ALL OTHER
HOMEOWNERS IN NEW YORK WILL HAVE SEEN THEIR SCHOOL PROPERTY
TAXES REDUCED BY AN AVERAGE OF 27%.
(Applause)
BUT
THE STAR PROGRAM ISN'T ABOUT NUMBERS AND PERCENTAGES; IT'S ABOUT
REAL PEOPLE, PEOPLE LIKE CLAIR LANE OF GENESEE COUNTY, WHO SENT
ME A LETTER SAYING THAT, QUOTE, "RELIEF FROM SCHOOL TAXES SAVED
OUR HOME." WE'VE CUT SCHOOL PROPERTY TAXES. NOW IT'S TIME TO
CUT COUNTY PROPERTY TAXES.
(Applause)
THIS
YEAR I WILL PROPOSE ENACTING CO-STAR, WHICH WILL DRAMATICALLY
REDUCE THE BURDEN OF COUNTY PROPERTY TAXES ON THE NEW YORKERS
WHO NEED IT MOST, SENIORS AND FARMERS.
(Applause)
AND
AS WE CONTINUE TO CUT TAXES ON WORKING FAMILIES, WE MUST ALSO
CONTINUE TO CUT TAXES ON THE BUSINESSES THAT KEEP THEM WORKING.
THEY SAY YOU CAN'T RUN A BUSINESS WITHOUT TAKING RISKS. SIX
YEARS AGO, DOING BUSINESS IN NEW YORK STATE WAS THE RISKS. NEW
YORK'S BUSINESSES WERE OVERREGULATED, OVERTAXED AND UNDERAPPRECIATED.
WE CHANGED THAT. WE MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE REWARD FOR ENTERPRISE,
INGENUITY, RISK, RISK-TAKING AND SUCCESS SHOULD NOT BE MORE
REGULATIONS AND HIGHER TAXES. WE CUT THE TAXES THAT WERE KILLING
SMALL BUSINESS, KILLING INVESTMENTS AND KILLING JOBS. THERE
ARE THOSE WHO SAID THAT OUR SWEEPING TAX CUTS WOULD HURT OUR
STATE'S FINANCES AND WEAKEN NEW YORK'S CREDIT. THEY COULDN'T
HAVE BEEN MORE WRONG. MANY OF THE ADDITIONAL TAX CUTS I PROPOSE
TODAY WILL BE AIMED AT FURTHER STRENGTHENING OUR UPSTATE ECONOMY,
AND I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS THAT WITH YOU FOR A MOMENT. TODAY UPSTATE
NEW YORK HAS MORE PRIVATE-SECTOR JOBS THAN AT ANY TIME IN ITS
HISTORY.
(Applause)
THROUGHOUT
OUR HISTORY, MANY OF OUR UPSTATE COMMUNITIES THRIVED ON THE
SUCCESS OF ONE OR A HANDFUL OF LARGE EMPLOYERS, USUALLY MANUFACTURERS,
BUT FOR OVER A GENERATION, HUNDREDS OF THESE COMPANIES WERE
FORCED OUT OF OUR STATE BY HIGH TAXES, IRRATIONAL REGULATIONS
AND A HOSTILE BUSINESS CLIMATE. THE EXODUS OF THESE COMPANIES
DEVASTATED THE UPSTATE COMMUNITIES THAT THEY ONCE SUPPORTED.
LAST YEAR I ASKED YOU TO ABOLISH ONE OF THE LEADING PRODUCERS
OF PINK SLIPS IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX ON
MANUFACTURERS. I APPLAUD YOU FOR TAKING THAT GIANT STEP, AND
IT IS A GIANT STEP, ONE THAT'S GOING TO LOWER THE COST OF ENERGY
BY NEARLY $400 MILLION A YEAR.
(Applause)
NOW
AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE INTO COMPETITIVE ELECTRIC MARKET, WE
NEED TO PROTECT CONSUMERS AGAINST UNWARRANTED PRICE SPIKES,
LIKE THE OUTRAGEOUS DOUBLE-DIGIT INCREASES IN NEW YORK CITY
LAST SUMMER. RIGHT NOW THE POWER TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING
AGAIN RESTS SOLELY IN THE HANDS OF FEDERAL REGULATORS IN WASHINGTON.
THAT'S WRONG. OUR STATE SHOULD HAVE THAT AUTHORITY, AND THIS
YEAR I WILL ASK OUR CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION TO JOIN ME IN THE
FIGHT TO GET THAT AUTHORITY.
(Applause)
NOW
THAT THE JOB-KILLING GROSS RECEIPTS TAX IS WHERE IT BELONGS,
IN THE DUMPSTER, I IMPLORE YOU TO JOIN ME IN SUPPORTING A COMMON-SENSE
THREE-POINT PLAN TO CONTINUE TO STRENGTHEN NEW YORK'S MANUFACTURING
INDUSTRY. FIRST WE NEED TO FIX THE TAX ON MANUFACTURERS SO THAT
IT LOOKS AS THOUGH SOMEONE ACTUALLY DESIGNED IT ON PURPOSE.
IT'S ONE TAX, BUT IT TAXES BUSINESSES THREE TIMES, ONCE UNDER
PAYROLL, ONCE UNDER PROPERTY, AND THEN AGAIN UNDER RECEIPTS.
THAT'S TWO TIMES TOO MANY. THIS YEAR LET'S GET RID OF THE TAX
ON PAYROLL AND PROPERTY SO THESE MANUFACTURERS CAN INVEST, GROW
AND CREATE NEW JOBS RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.
(Applause)
SECOND,
THE ALTERNATIVE MINIMUM TAX SENDS A VERY CLEAR MESSAGE TO MANUFACTURERS.
IT SAYS, IF YOU INVEST IN NEW YORK, YOU WILL BE PENALIZED. THAT'S
WHY WE'VE CUT THAT TAX IN HALF SINCE 1995. THIS YEAR LET'S FINISH
OUR WORK AND PUT THE ALTERNATIVE MINIMUM TAX IN THE TRASH CAN
WHERE IT BELONGS.
(Applause)
THIRD,
WE MUST RECOGNIZE THAT AN INVESTMENT IN THE TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT
OF OUR WORK FORCE IS A DOWN PAYMENT ON A BRIGHTER FUTURE. LET'S
MAKE THAT INVESTMENT THIS YEAR BY PROVIDING ONGOING HIGH-TECH
TRAINING TO THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO WORK IN MANUFACTURING.
(Applause)
>>
Gary: SEVERAL EXCERPTS FROM GOVERNOR PATAKI'S STATE OF THE STATE
MESSAGE. JOINING ME IN THE STUDIO, SENATOR RICK DOLLINGER AND
SENATOR JIM ALESI. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, FOR JOINING ME. LET'S
BEGIN WITH TAX CUTS, TAX CUTS, TAX CUTS, TAX CUTS, TAX CUTS,
WHICH IS WHAT THE BASELINE MESSAGE THE GOVERNOR DID HAVE FOR
REVIVING THE ECONOMY. BUT THERE'S TWO TACKS I WANT TO TAKE.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT UPSTATE IN A MINUTE. BUT THE STAR TAX OR THE
STAR TAX REDUCTION, WHICH USES STATE FUNDS TO OFFSET. IT DOESN'T
REALLY CUT THE PROPERTY TAX, BUT IT MAKES THE PAYMENT FOR THE
TAXPAYER OUT OF THE STATE'S FUND AS OPPOSED TO PROPERTY TAX
FUND. NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING A CO-STAR PROGRAM, EXPANDING
THAT PROGRAM, CUTTING BUSINESS TAXES. MY QUESTION IS, IN LIGHT
OF WHAT PRESIDENT-ELECT GEORGE BUSH IS SAYING ABOUT AN ECONOMIC
DOWNTURN, CAN WE LOCK OURSELVES INTO A RECURRING DEBT OF PAYING
PROBABLY A BILLION-PLUS IN TAX CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EITHER
STAR OR FOR BUSINESS TAXES? IS THAT A CONCERN OF YOURS?
>> I WOULDN'T MAKE THAT SUCH A CONCERN, AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND
THAT, WHATEVER THE LEGISLATURE DOES, THE LEGISLATURE CAN UNDO.
AND I THINK THAT I PUT MY FAITH IN THE GOVERNOR'S VISION HERE,
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORY TEN YEARS AGO OR SO WHEN THERE WERE
PERSONAL INCOME TAX CUTS THAT WERE SCHEDULED IN THE LATE '80s,
THEY WERE PUT OFF WHEN THERE WAS A FINANCIAL CRISIS LATER ON,
I WOULDN'T HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS NOW BECAUSE WE HAVE A DIFFERENT
GOVERNOR; AND I THINK THAT, WITH A SUSTAINED ECONOMY THAT WE'VE
HAD, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A SLOWDOWN, AND IT IS STILL A VERY
STRONG AND HEALTHY ECONOMY...
>>
Gary: PRETTY TOUGH GENIE TO PUT BACK IN THE BOTTLE THOUGH. ONCE
PEOPLE ARE USED TO STAR AND THEY SEE WHAT THEIR PROPERTY TAXES
REALLY ARE, BECAUSE IT SHIELDS THAT NUMBER FROM THEIR EYES,
THAT WOULD BE A TOUGH GENIE TO PUT GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE,
WOULDN'T IT?
>> SURELY, IT WOULD, BUT I THINK THAT THE LONG AND THE SHORT
OF IT IS THAT, IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN,
YOU STILL HAVE RECOURSE; AND I THINK THAT, KNOWING THAT, I'D
BE CONFIDENT IN SUPPORTING THOSE KINDS OF TAX CUTS, IN FACT
ENCOURAGING MORE KINDS OF TAX CUTS LIKE THAT, BECAUSE WHEN IT
COMES TO PROPERTY TAX CUTS, THAT'S REALLY WHAT HELPS, AND THE
PERSONAL INCOME TAX CUTS THAT WE IMPLEMENTED A FEW YEARS AGO,
THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF TAX CUTS THAT HELP, AND THOSE ARE THE
KINDS THAT, IF YOU DO RUN INTO A SITUATION, YOU WANT TO SUSTAIN
THEM.
>>
Gary: AND YOU CAN REVERSE THAT.
>>
YES.
>>
Gary: SENATOR DILLINGER, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS ON THAT?
>> FIRST UNDERSTAND, AND I THINK YOU POINTED OUT CORRECTLY,
GARY, A LOT OF WHAT HE TALKS ABOUT WITH TAX CUTTING, BOTH WITH
PROPERTY TAXES FOR SCHOOLS AND PROPERTY TAXES FOR THE COUNTY,
ARE NOT TAX CUTS. WHAT THEY ARE IS SIMPLY TRANSITIONING SOMETHING
I'VE SUPPORTED FOR A LONG TIME. USE OUR BROAD-BASED SALES AND
INCOME TAX TO PAY FOR SCHOOLS. HELP THE COUNTIES OUT BY PUTTING
MORE MONEY IN. THERE'S NO REDUCTION IN THE COST OF GOVERNMENT;
THERE'S NO REDUCTION IN THE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT OF COUNTIES AND
SCHOOL DISTRICTS. THEY'RE SIMPLY SHIFTING THE TAXES FROM THE
PROPERTY TAX BASE, SOMETHING MOST OF US FEEL IS TOO ONEROUS
IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, TO BROAD-BASED TAXES. BUT UNDERSTAND ONE
OTHER THING: IN NEW YORK WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO BACKLOAD ALL
OUR TAX CUTS. WE TAX -- WE IMPOSE A NEW LAW THIS YEAR THAT'S
GOING TO CUT TAXES FOUR OR FIVE YEARS FROM NOW. IN MANY CASES,
WE IN NEW YORK, THE MAJOR CONSEQUENCES OF TAX-CUTTING DONE IN
THE MID AND LATE '90s HAS NOT EVEN COME TO ROOST YET, AND THERE
ARE SIGNIFICANT OBLIGATIONS OUT THERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO
PAY FOR.
>>
Gary: SO WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR EYE ON THAT.
>>
YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYE ON THAT BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT
OUR REVENUE PICTURE OVER THE SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM.
>>
Gary: LET'S BACK UP A LITTLE BIT. THE GOVERNOR REALLY TALKED
ABOUT UPSTATE A LOT. I IMAGINE A LOT OF THAT STEMMED FROM THE
FACT THAT -- WHILE THE GOVERNOR'S MESSAGE IN THE PAST HAS BEEN
UPSTATE ECONOMY'S JUST FINE; THINGS ARE TURNING AROUND. I THINK
Mr. LAZIO MODELED THOSE WORDS WHEN HE RAN AGAINST HILLARY CLINTON
LAST YEAR, AND I GUESS UPSTATE UNIVERSALLY VOTED WITH ITS FEET
SAYING, NO, IT'S NOT SO GREAT UP HERE. I SEE A LOT OF TALK ABOUT
CENTERS OF EXCELLENCE, WITH COMBINING EDUCATION, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
IN PLACES LIKE ROCHESTER, ALBANY, BUFFALO, SYRACUSE, UPSTATE.
UPSTATE IN FOR A LOT OF ATTENTION THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION?
>>
I THINK IT IS, AND I THINK THAT'S EVIDENCED NOT ONLY BY THE
GOVERNOR'S REMARKS YESTERDAY OF UPWARDS OF $1 BILLION OF AN
INVESTMENT INTO THOSE CENTERS OF EXCELLENCE, BUT WHAT'S ACTUALLY
HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITH OUR UNIVERSITIES AND WITH OUR BUSINESSES
STARTING TO MARRY AND THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE STATE WITH MONEY
AND MONEY THAT WE CAN LEVERAGE FEDERAL MONEY WITH IS A SECOND
STEP IN MAKING ALL OF THAT GEL. SO I THINK IT'S A GOOD THING
THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID WE'RE HERE; WE'RE GOING TO JOIN IN
THIS MARRIAGE AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
>> I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S GOT A SALESMAN'S JOB TO DO. THERE'S
NO QUESTION THAT RICK LAZIO CAME TO UPSTATE NEW YORK, A PLACE
WHERE REPUBLICANS HAD ALWAYS WON TEN POINTS AHEAD OF THE DEMOCRATS
IN A STATEWIDE RACE AND SAID "I THINK THE ECONOMY'S OKAY." NOBODY
IN UPSTATE NEW YORK BELIEVED HIM, AND I THINK IT WAS BECAUSE
WE HAVE LAGGED BEHIND THE RECOVERY IN THE BOON PERIOD FOR A
PERIOD OF TIME, AND I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE A LOT OF THINGS
TO TRY TO IMPROVE THE ECONOMY. HE JUST HASN'T CONVINCED THE
PEOPLE IN THIS NECK OF THE WOODS THAT IT WORKS. MY GUESS IS
HE'S STILL GOT A SALESMAN'S JOB TO DO.
>>
Gary: OKAY. LET'S MOVE ON. WE HAVE FISCAL POLICY WASN'T THE
ONLY THING THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS TALKING ABOUT, NOT THE ONLY
THING ON HIS MIND. HE ALSO HAD SOME STRONG THINGS TO SAY ABOUT
EDUCATION, ABOUT HEALTH CARE AND ABOUT VIOLENT ISSUES. LET'S
TAKE A LOOK. >> Governor George E. Pataki: THE TIME HAS COME
TO FIX THE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW THAT TIES THE HANDS OF LOCAL SCHOOL
DISTRICTS, THE DINOSAUR THAT IS THE STATE SCHOOL AID FORMULA.
(Applause)
I
WILL PROPOSE CONSOLIDATING ELEVEN DIFFERENT COMPLEX FUNDING
FORMULAS THAT IN THE PAST HAVE TIED THE HANDS OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS
INTO ONE FLEXIBLE, EASY-TO-USE AID CATEGORY. AND IN SO DOING,
WE CAN SAVE FUNDS THAT ARE WASTED ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND
INSTEAD SEND THAT MONEY INTO THE CLASSROOMS, WHERE IT'S NEEDED.
LET'S MAKE THIS THE YEAR THAT WE PUT CONTROL OF OUR MAJOR URBAN
SCHOOL SYSTEMS WHERE IT BELONGS, IN THE HANDS OF THE MAYORS.
(Applause)
THIS
YEAR, I ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT TO DOUBLE THE FUNDING FOR TEACHERS
FOR TOMORROW AND TO EXPAND IT TO DRAW UPON ANOTHER UNTAPPED
RESERVOIR OF POTENTIAL TEACHERS. OUR POWER PROFESSIONALS WHO
WORK IN CLASSROOMS EVERY DAY, TEACHERS' AIDES HAVE SHOWN THEIR
COMMITMENT TO OUR CHILDREN. LET'S PROVIDE THEM WITH A CAREER
LADDER SO THEY CAN BECOME CERTIFIED TEACHERS TO HELP OUR KIDS.
(Applause)
AND
THERE'S ANOTHER POOL OF POTENTIAL TEACHERS WE SHOULD DRAW FROM:
RETIRED PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. FROM POLICE OFFICERS TO MEDICAL RESEARCHERS.
MANY OF THESE RETIREES COULD MAKE OUTSTANDING TEACHERS. LET'S
ALLOW THEM TO BECOME PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS WHILE STILL RECEIVING
THEIR RETIREMENT BENEFITS.
(Applause)
THE
CHILD HEALTH PLUS IS A WONDERFUL PROGRAM. CHILD HEALTH EXPERTS
ARE RIGHT WHEN THEY SAY IT'S A MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE NATION.
I THINK I'M RIGHT TO SAY THAT BEING THE BEST SHOULDN'T PREVENT
US FROM BEING EVEN BETTER. THAT'S WHY WE'RE MAKING THE SAME
COMMITMENT TO ALL NEW YORKERS THROUGH FAMILY HEALTH PLUS, THE
MOST COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH CARE PLAN IN THE NATION. STARTING
THIS YEAR, WE WILL HELP UP TO 600,000 UNINSURED WORKING NEW
YORKERS GET THE HEALTH COVERAGE THEY NEED AND DESERVE.
(Applause)
THIS
YEAR, LET'S GIVE POLICE AND PROSECUTORS THE LAWS THEY NEED TO
BUILD ON THE SUCCESS OF OUR DNA LAW. LET'S EXPAND THE DNA DATABASE
TO INCLUDE ALL CONVICTED CRIMINALS.
(Applause)
WE
MUST ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THE PASSAGE OF TIME DOESN'T MAKE A
HEINOUS CRIME ANY LESS HEINOUS. BECAUSE DNA TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS
US TO SOLVE CRIMES COMMITTED TEN, TWENTY OR EVEN THIRTY YEARS
AGO, WE MUST GET RID OF A LAW THAT PROTECTS THE GUILTY. THERE
IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON VICTIMS, AND THERE SHOULD BE
NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS FOR VIOLENT PREDATORS.
(Applause)
WE'VE
TAKEN THE RIGHT STEPS ON GUNS. TOO MANY GUNS ARE COMING INTO
NEW YORK FROM STATES THAT HAVE THEM. THIS YEAR WE WILL REINFORCE
OUR GUN LAWS WITH AN AGGRESSIVE NEW INITIATIVE AIMED AT STOPPING
ILLEGAL WEAPONS BEFORE THEY CAN GETS INTO OUR STATE AND SEIZING
THOSE THAT ALREADY HAVE. I'VE DIRECTED THE STATE POLICE TO SPEARHEAD
THIS EFFORT WITH A NEW SPECIAL UNIT CALLED SWIFT, THE SPECIAL
WEAPONS INTERDICTION FIELD TEAM. THIS ELITE TEAM OF SPECIALLY
TRAINED AGENTS WILL GATHER INTELLIGENCE TO IDENTIFY, ARREST
AND PROSECUTE GUN TRAFFICKERS. THEY WILL WORK...
(Applause)
THEY
WILL WORK WITH LOCAL AND FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS TO
ESTABLISH A STRONG PRESENCE ALONG THE ROUTES GUN TRAFFICKERS
USE TO MOVE ILLEGAL WEAPONS. THEY WILL TRACK THEM DOWN, PUT
THEM IN PRISON, AND DESTROY THEIR WEAPONS. TO DO THAT MORE EFFECTIVELY,
I WILL ALSO PROPOSE LEGISLATION TO TOUGHEN THE PENALTIES FOR
THOSE CAUGHT TRAFFICKING ILLEGAL WEAPONS.
>>
Gary: AND MORE OF THE GOVERNOR'S STATE OF THE STATE MESSAGE.
YOU'RE BACK WITH STATE SENATOR RICK DOLLINGER AND STATE SENATOR
JIM ALESI. LET'S START WITH EDUCATION. THE HOLY GRAIL OF EDUCATION,
PARTICULARLY... BUT THE STATE SENATE PARTICULARLY, IS HOLD HARMLESS.
MY SCHOOL DISTRICT AND MY DISTRICT SHALL NOT GET A PENNY UNDER
WHAT IT GOT LAST YEAR. THE GOVERNOR'S SAYING LET'S SCRAP THAT
PROGRAM, AND I'VE GOT TO BELIEVE THAT IS GOING TO BE THE BOSNIA
OF ANY OF HIS PROPOSALS. IS IT DOA?
>> I WOULD NOT SAY IT'S DOA, AND I HOPE THAT IT ISN'T FROM THE
STANDPOINT THAT EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES THAT THE FORMULAS THAT
HAVE BEEN USED HAVE BOTHERSOME AND TROUBLESOME, AND IN MANY
CASES THEY HAVE DENIED NEEDY SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHAT THEY NEED,
AND IN SOME CASES THEY'VE OVERPAID NON-NEEDY SCHOOL DISTRICTS
WHAT THEY DON'T NEED. SO ANY APPROACH TO RESOLVING THAT SITUATION
IS WORTH EMBRACING AND WORKING FOR. BUT AS FAR AS BEING DOA,
I THINK THAT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE FEARFUL THAT THEIR CONSTITUENCY
WILL LOSE OUT WILL BE VERY LOUD VOICES IN THIS WHAT YOU CALL
BOSNIA, THIS POTENTIAL BOSNIA. BUT I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS ABSOLUTELY
ON TRACK WITH THE EFFORT, WITH THE EFFORT TO RESOLVE A SITUATION
THAT IS ARCHAIC AND THAT IS UNFAIR.
>> Gary: JIM, THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE GREAT TIMES TO BE IN A
MINORITY (Laughing) IN THE STATE SENATE. THERE WAS A COMMENT
ON THAT. I PUT THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU.
>>
WELL, YOU CALL IT THE HOLY GRAIL. I CALL IT THE ROSETTA STONE.
IT'S WRITTEN DOWN BUT NOBODY CAN UNDERSTAND IT. IT'S GOING TO
TAKE -- I MEAN, PEOPLE HAVE TRIED. MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE
HAVE TRIED AND CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT. IT'S ABSOLUTELY INDECIPHERABLE.
BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS THE MARK. RATHER THAN TINKER AROUND
WITH THE STATE SCHOOL AID FORMULA, WHICH IS A POLITICAL CONUNDRUM
WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET TO; I THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL IDEA,
IT'S A LAUDATORY GOAL, BUT IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. THE
BETTER THING TO DO IS TO USE THE REGION'S APPROACH, WHICH IS
TO SAY WE NOW HAVE STANDARDS IN PLACE. WE CAN TELL WHICH SCHOOL
DISTRICTS ARE FAILING TO MAKE THOSE STANDARDS, AND THAT'S THE
AREA WHERE WE NEED TO PUT MORE RESOURCES. PUT A STANDARD COMPLIANCE
POOL TOGETHER. THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY OUGHT TO GO.
>>
Gary: LET'S MOVE ON TO SOME OF THE VIOLENCE ISSUES AND CRIME
ISSUES. ONE THING WE DIDN'T SEE BUT HE DID MENTION, UNDER NO
UNCERTAIN TERMS, WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER TOUGH
THING FROM COVERING THE LEGISLATURE MY YEARS IN ALBANY, IS THE
ROCKEFELLER DRUG LAWS. BECAUSE WE'VE HAD STUDY AFTER STUDY,
AND I'M SURE THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY HAS ALWAYS BEEN SAYING WE
HAVE TO REDUCE THE WHAT THEY CALL ONEROUS SENTENCES FOR MINOR
DRUG OFFENSES OR NON-VIOLENT DRUG OFFENSES. BUT HERE YOU'RE
ASKING THE LEGISLATURE TO VOTE AGAINST TOUGH DRUG LAWS, TO IN
A SENSE TO REDUCE TOUGH DRUG LAWS. THAT'S GOT TO BE A TOUGH
PILL TO SWALLOW, PARTICULARLY FOR THE MORE CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS
OF YOUR PARTY. YOU REPRESENT YOUR CONSTITUENCY, AND YOU HAVE
MODERATE CONSTITUENCY AND YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A MODERATE SENATOR.
BUT LOOKING AT SOME OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS IN THERE, CAN YOU SEE
VOTING AGAINST TOUGH DRUG LAWS?
>>
I THINK THERE'S SOME SENSE TO THE ARGUMENT THAT IT'S TIME TO
REVISIT THAT, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT TWO OUT OF EVERY
SEVEN INMATES ARE THERE FOR -- DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF DRUG POSSESSION,
AND YOU HAVE TO BALANCE THAT WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT EVERYBODY
THAT'S INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE IS PART OF THAT ENTERPRISE,
AND THAT ENTERPRISE IS ONE THAT DEALS WITH DEATH AND MURDER
AND DESTRUCTION OF HUMAN LIFE. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE TO
SAY THAT TREATMENT AND REHABILITATION MIGHT BE THE AREA WHERE
WE SHOULD BE EMPHASIZING RIGHT NOW.
>>
Gary: I JUST LOOK AT MONROE COUNTY WHERE WE HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR
WITH THE DRUG COURT WHICH IS SAYING LET'S GO FOR TREATMENT INSTEAD
OF INCARCERATION AND JUST THE FIGHT THAT KICKED OFF WITH THE
CONSERVATIVE PARTY IN PARTICULAR. THAT'S GOING TO REPRODUCE
ITSELF STATEWIDE, DON'T YOU THINK?
>> IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO VOTE AGAINST THAT, AND I'LL
GIVE YOU THE BEST EXAMPLE. THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY, SHELLY
SILVER, WHO GENERALLY IS A LIBERAL ON THESE ISSUES, WAS FEARFUL
OF BEING PORTRAYED AS SOFT ON CRIME, AND THAT'S WHY HE DID NOT
SUPPORT THE REPEAL OR THE RELAXATION OF THE ROCKEFELLER DRUG
LAWS. I THINK MAYBE THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN THIS YEAR, BUT WHEN
YOU HAVE THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY, WHO REALLY IS ALMOST AFRAID
TO TOUCH IT BECAUSE OF THE REPERCUSSIONS THAT HE -- AND YOU
HAVE TO SAY CONSERVATIVES WOULD HAVE THE SAME FEARS. BUT I THINK
IT IS TIME. I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S RIGHT ON THE MARK HERE, AS
LONG AS THE FOCUS IS ON TREATMENT AND EDUCATION.
>>
WELL, THAT'S WHERE THE PROOF IN THE PUDDING'S GOING TO COME,
GARY. THE DRUG COURT IN MONROE COUNTY DREW A HUGE CENSURE WHEN
IT STARTED. BUT I THINK PEOPLE HAVE RECOGNIZED OVER TIME THAT
APPROACH WORKS. GET PEOPLE IN TREATMENT; DON'T PUT THEM IN JAIL.
MY SENSE ABOUT THE ROCKEFELLER DRUG LAWS IS THAT A NUMBER OF
PEOPLE IN THE STATE PRISON SYSTEM THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE EFFECTED
IS GETTING SMALLER AND SMALLER OVER TIME. DALE, THE CHAIRMAN
OF THE SENATE CODE COMMITTEE, TOLD ME HE THOUGHT A REPEAL WOULD
AFFECT ONLY 2,500 OF THE 75,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY IN THE
STATE PRISON SYSTEM; SO IT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT BIG OF AN
IMPACT. I THINK JIM IS RIGHT. I THINK THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE
OUT THERE WHO SAY YOU CAN'T BE SOFT ON CRIME. BUT I THINK THE
GENERAL SENTIMENT AFTER 25 YEARS OF ROCKEFELLER DRUG LAWS CLEARLY
DIDN'T WORK. THEY WEREN'T A DETERRENT, AND THEY'VE REALLY BEEN
A FAILURE AND WE HAVE TO RE-EXAMINE IT.
>>
Gary: OKAY. THE GOVERNOR WASN'T THE ONLY ONE TALKING YESTERDAY.
THAT WAS A ROYAL OPPOSITION. IN THIS CASE, THAT'S DEMOCRATIC
SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY SHELDON SILVER. HE HAD HIS CHANCE TO
COMMENT ON THE GOVERNOR'S ADDRESS. LET'S HEAR IT.
>>
NEW YORK IS FACING A BRIGHT FUTURE. NO, WE CANNOT ERASE THE
UNCERTAINTY INHERENT IN A FAST-PACED, HIGH-TECH WORLD. YOUR
GOVERNMENT CAN ENSURE THAT THERE IS A SOUND FOUNDATION BENEATH
YOUR FEET WHATEVER YOUR GOALS AND ASPIRATIONS. BE ASSURED THAT
YOUR NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY WILL BE WORKING TO SHORE UP THAT
FOUNDATION, BY WORKING TO ENHANCE YOUR LOCAL ECONOMY, REDUCE
YOUR ENERGY COSTS, IMPROVE YOUR SCHOOLS AND THE CALIBRE OF EDUCATION
THEY PROVIDE. ESTABLISH A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT IS AFFORDABLE
AND ACCESSIBLE, FAIR AND OF THE HIGHEST QUALITY, AND BY ADVANCING
CRIMINAL JUSTICE POLICIES THAT ARE TOUGH AND INTELLIGENT. ALL
OF THESE THINGS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH MUTUAL RESPECT AND
BIPARTISAN CO-OPERATION. THAT'S HOW WE SHOULD BEGIN THE NEW
MILLENNIUM.
>>
Gary: AND THAT WAS ASSEMBLY SPEAKER SHELDON SILVER TALKING ABOUT
BIPARTISANSHIP. THAT SEEMS TO BE THE CALL BOTH FEDERALLY AND
ON THE STATE LEVEL. I WANT TO TOUCH ON THAT. BUT FIRST, ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT I DID SEE IN Mr. SILVER'S REMARKS WAS A REMARKABLE
-- NOT, YOU KNOW -- WE DON'T DISAGREE VERY MUCH WITH THE GOVERNOR
ON THIS. AS A MATTER OF FACT HE'S SAYING WELCOME ABOARD. A LOT
OF THINGS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, YOU'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT.
IS THAT THE GENERAL REACTION YOU GENTLEMEN HAVE?
>> I THINK THE POLLS HAVE SHOWN, AND WE GO BACK TO CLINTON AND
LAZIO. I MEAN, THIS STATE HAS BEEN MOVING TO THE MIDDLE. IT'S
BEEN VERY MODERATE. I THINK THE ACTION OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE
STATE SENATE, FOR THE FIRST TIME LAST YEAR, THROUGH THE LEADERSHIP
OF JOE BRUNO, I THINK DRIVEN IN PART BY ELECTION CONSIDERATIONS.
WE DID GUN CONTROL, HATE CRIMES, CLINIC ACCESS, AND JIM WAS
IN THERE IN THAT THAT ROOM DEBATING ALL THOSE IN THE SENATE
MAJORITY; BUT THERE'S REALLY BEEN A TREND TO GET IN THE MIDDLE.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS DOING. I THINK WHAT THE
SPEAKER IS SAYING IS HE'S TRYING TO DECLARE WE SORT OF HAD THE
MIDDLE FIRST. AS STAKING OUT HIS TURF, THIS MAY BE THE FIRST
SHOT IN THE POTENTIAL McCALL, PATAKI...
>> I THINK THAT THAT'S MADE POSSIBLE BY THE PREVIOUS SIX YEARS,
WHERE A LOT OF THE CONTENTIOUS ISSUES, WHETHER IT WAS RENT CONTROL,
WORKER'S COMP ISSUES, THE BUDGET DEFICIT LEFT OVER BY THE COMEAU
ADMINISTRATION, ARE NOW BEHIND US. THE EMERGENCY SURGERY, WHICH
IS ALWAYS SO CONTENTIOUS IN THE LEGISLATURE, IS BEHIND US. SO
NOW WE'RE GOING INTO AN ERA WHERE THE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE
AND NEED TO BE DONE CAN BE DONE IN A BIPARTISAN WAY BECAUSE
THE CONTENTIOUS PART OF ALL OF THOSE OTHER ISSUES ARE GONE.
AND SO I THINK THAT, WHEN YOU HEAR PRESIDENT-ELECT BUSH SAY
THAT; WHEN YOU HEAR THE GOVERNOR SAY THAT IN THE STATE OF THE
STATE; WHEN YOU HEAR THE SPEAKER SAY THAT, THAT WE ARE MOVING
INTO AN ERA OF MODERATION, MOVING INTO AN ERA OF BIPARTISANSHIP,
BUT WE MUST DO THAT WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT, IN THE LEGISLATURE,
YOU'RE ALWAYS WALKING A MINEFIELD.
>>
Gary: LET ME SAY THAT, BEING IN THE MEDIA, I AM NOT CYNICAL,
BUT I AM SKEPTICAL (chuckling) AND I THINK THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE TWO. AFTER COVERING ALBANY FOR SO LONG AND COVERING
POLITICS FOR SO LONG, I'M LOOKING AT THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION
AND SAYING, UNDERNEATH ALL OF THIS TALK, REAPPORTION IT, WHERE
THE MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES ARE GOING TO SIT DOWN AND DRAW
THE DISTRICTS WHICH YOU GENTLEMEN WILL RUN IN, AND THERE'S GOING
TO BE AN ENORMOUS BATTLE BECAUSE YOU'RE PROTECTING THE MAJORITIES
OF BOTH HOUSES, NOT TO MENTION THE CONGRESS ISSUES. BUT, FOR
EXAMPLE, YOU TWO GENTLEMEN MAY END UP IN THE SAME DISTRICT AND
YOU MAY HAVE TO RUN AGAINST EACH OTHER, SO HOW DO YOU WORK TOGETHER
WHEN YOUR SITUATION IS BEING REPRODUCED ACROSS THE STATE?
>>
WELL, I THINK PART OF IT IS, I THINK JIM AND I WOULD PROBABLY
AGREE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CONSTITUENT BASE; YOU LOOK AT THE
PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT. THAT'S WHERE OUR FEALTY HAS TO BE. AND
WE LOOK AT -- I THINK JIM IS RIGHT WHEN HE SAYS WE DID REAL
TOUGH SURGERY IN A PERIOD COMING OUT OF THE RECESSION, AND WE
WERE ACTUALLY BLESSED, AND WE GOT THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS.
WE HAD ENOUGH INCOME COMING IN THROUGH, OUR STATE TAX RECEIPTS,
SO WE COULD BOTH CUT TAXES AND RAISE MONEY FOR NEW PROGRAMS.
WE PUT A FAMILY HEALTH PLUS PROGRAM IN PLACE. WE PUT AN EPIC
ADJUSTMENT, WHICH IS GOING TO COST 3 OR $400 MILLION. WE WERE
ABLE, BECAUSE OF A BOOMING ECONOMY, TO DO THOSE THINGS. TO THAT
EXTENT, I AGREE WITH JIM. I THINK A LOT OF THE VERY CONTENTIOUS
ISSUES, THE VERY IDEOLOGICAL ISSUES THAT DREW THE PARTIES APART,
HAVE NOW BEEN RESOLVED OR AT LEAST MOVED FORWARD. SO NOW WE'VE
GOT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN THE MIDDLE WHO ARE GOING TO
FIGHT FOR THIS VERY SMALL PART OF THE MIDDLE. I THINK THAT'S
WHAT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE WAS ABOUT.
>>
Gary: WELL, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE FEWER UPSTATE LAWMAKERS.
THERE'S A SHIFT IN POPULATION FROM UPSTATE TO THE CITY. THERE
COULD BE FEWER OF YOU AND, YOU KNOW, WITH LITTLE -- A LARGER
DISTRICT, AND AGAIN REALISTICALLY, HOW DIFFICULT IS IT GOING
TO BE TO TALK ABOUT BIPARTISAN AND WORKING TOGETHER WHEN YOUR
VERY FUTURES, YOUR VERY SEATS ARE UP FOR GRABS?
>>
I THINK IT WILL BE EASIER THAN YOU MIGHT EXPECT. AND THE REASON
FOR THAT IS THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A TWO-YEAR PROCESS. IN
FACT THE GOVERNOR MENTIONED THAT HIMSELF, AND IT'S NOT GOING
TO HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF SHIFTING AND RESHIFTING.
THE MAJORITIES OF BOTH HOUSES WILL CONTROL THAT PROCESS TO SOME
EXTENT, AND I THINK THAT THAT IS A REALITY THAT WON'T GO AWAY;
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR REGION HERE, THERE MAY BE SOME SUBTLE
CHANGES, BUT I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT IN SAYING THAT THE BIG CHANGES
WILL HAPPEN DOWN STATE WHERE THEY'LL HAVE TO ADD PERHAPS A FEW
SEATS IN THE STATE SENATE AND MAYBE IN THE ASSEMBLY BECAUSE
OF THE POPULATION GROWTH THERE. IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE
HERE, BUFFALO AREA, THEY'VE LOST ABOUT 50,000 PEOPLE OR SO.
SO THERE WILL BE A VACUUM THERE. WILL THE VACUUM TRANSFER TO
-- IN OUR DIRECTION TO MONROE COUNTY? I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THEY MAY LOSE A SEAT THERE THAT WILL GROW
SOMEPLACE DOWN STATE.
>>
Gary: SENATOR, I THINK YOU HAVE JUST HAD OUR LAST WORD. I WANT
TO SAY THAT'S OUR TIME FOR THIS PROGRAM. IT WENT BY VERY QUICKLY.
I HOPE TO HAVE YOU GENTLEMEN BACK AGAIN TO TALK ABOUT MORE AS
THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION GOES ON. MY THANKS TO SENATORS JIM ALESI
AND TO RICK DOLLINGER. I WANT TO SAY, IF YOU WANT TO GO TO nyelection.org,
YOU CAN GET TRANSCRIPTS OF THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH AND TRANSCRIPTS
OF SHELDON SILVER'S REMARKS YESTERDAY. ALSO IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT
ON THIS PROGRAM CALL US 258-0250, OR YOU CAN GO TO wxxi.org,
AND CLICK ON "COMMUNITY" AND THEN ON "NEED TO KNOW." WE'LL HAVE
A TRANSCRIPT OF THIS PROGRAM AVAILABLE FOR YOU IN A FEW DAYS
AS WELL. THAT'S OUR SHOW TONIGHT, AND SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. THANKS.
(Music)