>>
Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON
"NEED TO KNOW," THE TERM IS
CHILD MALTREATMENT, AND
WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
PHYSICAL ABUSE OR EMOTIONAL
NEGLECT, THE NUMBER OF CASES
IN MONROE COUNTY IS ON THE
RISE.
WE'LL TALK WITH EXPERTS TO
FIND OUT WHY.
PLUS, "THE DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE'S" BUSINESS EDITOR,
ELLEN ROSEN, WILL JOIN US FOR
"THE BUSINESS SECTION."
SHE HAS SOME INSIGHT ON THE
START OF THE HOLIDAY SHOPPING
SEASON.
WE'LL ALSO INTRODUCE YOU TO
ABEL MORELL, A CUBAN
PHOTOGRAPHER WHOSE WORK IS
CURRENTLY ON DISPLAY AT THE
EASTMAN HOUSE.
BUT COMING UP FIRST, "CHILD
ABUSE."
IT'S NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>> A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE THE
PHYSICAL ABUSE AND THAT'S
WHAT'S RIGHT IN YOUR FACE AND
THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE ALL THE
TIME, BUT THERE'S ALSO A
TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF EMOTIONAL
MALTREATMENT AND VARIOUS TYPES
OF NEGLECT.
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES,
POLITICS, EDUCATION AND
CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS
JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL
LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT
OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
I'M GARY WALKER.
WE SEE IT MORE AND MORE ON THE
NEWS OR READ ABOUT IT IN THE
PAPER.
CHILD ABUSE IS A DIFFICULT
CRIME TO COMPREHEND, AND HERE
IN MONROE COUNTY, THE CASELOAD
CONTINUES TO INCREASE.
RATES OF ABUSE AND NEGLECT ARE
SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN PAST
YEARS.
HERE ARE THE LATEST NUMBERS:
IN 1999, 1.8 MILLION CASES OF
ABUSE WERE REPORTED AND
INVESTIGATED IN THE UNITED
STATES.
IN NEW YORK, MORE THAN 138,000
REPORTS WERE FILED.
AND IN MONROE COUNTY, MORE
THAN 5,200 REPORTS WERE
INVESTIGATED.
BUT LAST YEAR, THE NUMBER OF
LOCAL REPORTS SPIKED TO MORE
THAN 5,800.
MONROE COUNTY'S DEPARTMENT OF
SOCIAL SERVICES SAYS, ON
AVERAGE, ONE IN THREE OF THOSE
REPORTS LEAD TO A STATE
ACTION.
NEW YORK STATE LAW DOES NOT
REQUIRE ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY
BEFORE REPORTING SUSPECTED
CHILD ABUSE OR NEGLECT, ONLY
REASONABLE CAUSE.
"NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS
WENT TO MOUNT HOPE FAMILY
CENTER AND LEARNED THAT CHILD
ABUSE AND NEGLECT, IN ALL OF
ITS FORMS, IS OFTEN CYCLICAL,
MEANING PARENTS WHO WERE
ABUSED AS CHILDREN OFTEN
REPEAT THAT ABUSE ON THEIR OWN
KIDS.
A WARNING NOW: NOT ALL OF THE
CHILDREN SHOWN HERE HAVE BEEN
ABUSED.
SOME OF THEM LIVE IN AN
ENVIRONMENT THAT PLACES THEM
AT THE RISK OF MALTREATMENT.
>> I HAD A LOT OF ANGER INSIDE
OF ME, AND... I HAD BAD
MEMORIES, AND I DON'T KNOW
WHY, BUT I TOOK IT OUT ON HER.
I WOULD HIT HER, SCREAM AT HER
A LOT, BE VERY IMPATIENT WITH
HER.
I WOULD DRESS HER GREAT; I
WOULD FEED HER; I WOULD TAKE
HER PLACES, BUT I WASN'T TOO
PATIENT WITH HER.
AND I TOOK OUT MY ANGER AND MY
FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON MY
DAUGHTER.
>> Matt Cummings: MILLIE
SANTOS REMEMBERS HOW SHE USED
TO REACT TO HER DAUGHTER.
>> I FELT I WAS DISCIPLINING
MY DAUGHTER THE WAY -- THE
ONLY WAY I KNEW HOW, THE WAY I
WAS DISCIPLINED WHEN I WAS
SMALL, AND I THOUGHT I WAS
DOING THE RIGHT THING THEN,
BUT AS THE YEARS PASSED BY, I
REALIZED THAT I WASN'T DOING
THE RIGHT THING AS A PARENT.
I WAS ABUSING MY DAUGHTER.
>> Matt Cummings: SANTOS SAYS
SHE WAS ABUSED AS A CHILD AND
AS A MOTHER BECAME AN
ALCOHOLIC AND DRUG ABUSER TO
HIDE FROM THAT PAIN.
SHE BELIEVES THAT COMBINATION
LED HER TO ABUSE HER OWN
DAUGHTER, WHOSE NAME SHE
PREFERS TO KEEP CONFIDENTIAL
BECAUSE SHE'S NOW GROWN WITH A
CHILD OF HER OWN.
>> WHEN CHEMICAL DEPENDENCE
GETS IN THE WAY OR DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE OR ANY OF THOSE
NEGATIVE ISSUES GET INTO A
WOMAN'S LIFE, IT'S HARD TO BE
AN EFFICIENT PARENT.
FOR SOME REASON, IT'S SO HARD.
IT'S SO HARD.
ANYTHING THAT THE CHILD DOES
THAT'S NORMAL, LIKE BREAK A
GLASS OR MAKE A MESS IN THE
KITCHEN ONE DAY EATING, IT
BECOMES BIGGER IN OUR MINDS,
OR IN MY MIND.
>> Matt Cummings: AND THEN ONE
DAY, SANTOS REMEMBERS A
CHILLING EXPERIENCE THAT
OPENED HER EYES AND PUSHED HER
TO SEEK HELP.
>> I REMEMBER ONE DAY I WALKED
INTO MY DAUGHTER'S ROOM, AND
SHE WAS BEATING UP ONE OF HER
DOLLS, LIKE, YOU KNOW,
SPANKING HER AND TELLING HER,
"YOU HAVE TO STAY STILL.
LISTEN TO ME."
AND RIGHT THEN, I SUFFERED
FROM POST-TRAUMATIC DISORDERS
AT THAT TIME, BUT I DIDN'T
KNOW WHAT IT WAS, AND I SAW
MYSELF SITTING ON THE FLOOR
AND ME BEING HIT.
I REALIZED I WAS DOING TO MY
DAUGHTER THE SAME THING THAT
MY PARENTS DID TO ME.
>> Matt Cummings: THE
PROFESSIONAL TERM FOR CHILD
ABUSE IS CHILD MALTREATMENT,
AN ALL-INCLUSIVE TERM USED TO
DESCRIBE PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL,
SEXUAL AND MENTAL ABUSE, AS
WELL AS NEGLECT.
ALISA HATHAWAY IS A CLINICAL
SOCIAL WORKER AT MOUNT HOPE
FAMILY CENTER.
>> YOU KNOW, ADULTS AROUND
CHILDREN MAY BE PUTTING THEM
DOWN OR NOT INTERACTING WITH
THEM, NOT GIVING THEM SOCIAL
STIMULATION, NOT FOSTERING
THEIR SELF-ESTEEM.
>> Matt Cummings: HATHAWAY
SAYS DIAGNOSING PHYSICAL ABUSE
IS EASIER THAN DISCOVERING
EMOTIONAL ABUSE AND NEGLECT
BECAUSE BRUISES SHOW
THEMSELVES MORE VISIBLY THAN
EMOTIONAL SCARS.
LAST YEAR, 5,400 CASES OF
NEGLECT WERE REPORTED IN
MONROE COUNTY.
THOSE CASES TAKE ON MANY
DIFFERENT FACES.
>> NEGLECT IS NOT BEING ABLE
TO MEET BASIC NEEDS: FOOD,
CLOTHING, SHELTER, MEDICAL
NEGLECT.
YOU KNOW, NOT GOING TO
APPROPRIATE APPOINTMENTS OR
FOLLOWING UP ON ANY ILLNESSES
THAT A CHILD MIGHT HAVE OR
GIVING APPROPRIATE DOSAGES OF
MEDICATION THAT CHILDREN MIGHT
NEED.
SO ALL OF THOSE WILL CONTINUE
TO FURTHER THEIR ILLNESSES OR
WHATEVER ELSE THEY'RE
SUFFERING FROM.
>> Matt Cummings: SANTOS SAYS
SHE NEVER NEGLECTED HER
CHILDREN, BUT HER YOUNGEST
CHILD, WHO IS NOW 7 YEARS OLD,
IS HAVING PROBLEMS WITH ANGER
MANAGEMENT.
SANTOS FEARS THAT HER SON'S
ANGER WILL TRIGGER HER ABUSIVE
WAYS, WHICH HAS LED HER TO
SEEK HELP AGAIN.
>> I HAVE LEARNED THAT IT'S
OKAY FOR ME TO BE ANGRY.
IT'S OKAY FOR MY SON TO BE
ANGRY.
IT'S JUST HOW WE BRING OUT THE
ANGER THAT'S IMPORTANT.
ARE WE GOING TO BE DESTRUCTIVE
WITH THE ANGER OR ARE WE GOING
TO BRING IT OUT CONSTRUCTIVELY
BECAUSE IT'S NOT HELPING TO
KEEP IT IN.
I KEPT IT IN.
AND I WAS TEACHING HIM HOW TO
KEEP IT IN.
>> I TELL THEM WHY I AM ANGRY.
I DON'T FIGHT WITH THEM, JUST
TELL THEM WHY I'M ANGRY.
>> Matt Cummings: HATHAWAY
SAYS MANY CASES OF
MALTREATMENT ARE CYCLICAL IN
NATURE, MEANING A PARENT WHO
ABUSES A CHILD WAS OFTEN
ABUSED THEMSELVES.
BUT THERE ARE OTHER REASONS
WHY PEOPLE MISTREAT THEIR
CHILDREN.
>> SUCH THINGS AS TEEN
PREGNANCY, FINANCIAL
STRESSERS, IMPOVERISHED
CONDITIONS, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
SITUATIONS, DRUG AND ALCOHOL
ADDICTIONS, MENTAL HEALTH,
HISTORY OF BEING MALTREATED AS
A CHILD THEMSELVES,
DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES,
EXPERIENCES WITH TRAUMA,
ALL OF THOSE RISK FACTORS,
LIKE I SAID, IF IT'S NOT A
FAMILY THAT HAS MALTREATED
THEIR CHILD OR THEIR CHILDREN,
THOSE RISK FACTORS WILL PUT
THEM AT AN INCREASED LEVEL FOR
POTENTIALLY MALTREATING THEIR
CHILD DOWN THE ROAD.
>> Matt Cummings: SANTOS NOW
RECOGNIZES THOSE RISK FACTORS,
AND WHILE SHE DIDN'T GET HELP
IN TIME TO PREVENT HER FROM
ABUSING HER DAUGHTER, SHE NOW
SEES SOME OF THOSE WARNING
SIGNS IN HER DAUGHTER AND
FEARS THAT SHE WILL REPEAT HER
MISTAKES.
>> I DON'T SEE PHYSICAL
VIOLENCE FROM HER TOWARD THE
CHILDREN, BUT I HAVE SEEN THE
CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY THERE, THE
YELLING STARTING, THE
IMPATIENTNESS, NOT BEING ABLE
TO BE A GOOD PARENT...
(Music)
>> Gary Walker: LOCAL FOCUS
GROUPS REPORT THAT WHILE MOST
PEOPLE RECOGNIZE CHILD
MALTREATMENT, ONLY 50% OF
THOSE POLLED SAID THEY WOULD
FILE AN ACTUAL REPORT.
JOINING US NOW TO FURTHER
DISCUSS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
OUR COMMUNITY IS DANTE
CICCHETTI.
HE IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE
MOUNT HOPE FAMILY CENTER AND A
PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY,
PSYCHOLOGY AND PEDIATRICS AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER.
DIANE LARTER, THE DEPUTY
DIRECTOR OF THE MONROE COUNTY
DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES.
AND BOB BARNES.
Mr. BARNES IS A SUPERVISOR
OF "THE IMPACT TEAM," WHICH
INVESTIGATES CHILD ABUSE AND
LOOKS AT SERIOUS ABUSE CASES
IN OUR COMMUNITY.
THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.
LET ME JUST RIGHT OFF THE BAT
ASK: CHILD ABUSE OR CHILD
MALTREATMENT, THIS CROSSES ALL
ETHNIC AND ALL INCOME LEVELS,
DOES IT NOT?
>> YES, IT DOES.
>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK
THIS, BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF
FOLKS ARE PARTICULARLY --
PARTICULARLY WITH A LOT OF THE
SEXUAL ABUSE CASES THAT HAVE
BEEN GOING AROUND LATELY, LET
ME ASK THIS: ARE PEOPLE WHO
ARE ABUSERS TREATABLE?
IN THE SENSE ARE THEY GOING TO
BE LIKE RECOVERING SUBSTANCE
ABUSERS?
DO THEY HAVE TO KEEP ON -- DO
THEY HAVE TO HAVE CONSTANT
SUPERVISION?
DO THEY HAVE TO HAVE THERAPY
AND SUPPORT?
THERE'S A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT
OUT THERE THAT SEXUAL
MOLESTERS CAN NEVER BE CURED
AND MUST BE LOCKED UP.
I'M ASKING FOR CHILD ABUSERS,
IS THIS A TREATABLE THING?
>> YES, IT IS, BUT THERE ARE
GOING TO BE INDIVIDUAL
DIFFERENCES IN HOW PEOPLE
RESPOND TO TREATMENT.
NOT EVERYONE WILL BE ABLE TO
BE HELPED.
MOREOVER, ONE NEEDS TO FOLLOW
UP THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TREATED
OVER TIME TO SEE IF THERE ARE
GOING TO BE ANY RELAPSES AND
THEN TO INTRODUCE TREATMENT AS
QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AFTER ANY
RELAPSES THAT MAY EVENTUATE.
THE RESEARCH IS VERY
RUDIMENTARY RIGHT NOW, SO WE
DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE
ANSWER IS, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE
THAT THESE FOLKS CANNOT BE
HELPED IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF
CASES.
>> Gary Walker: Dr. CICCHETTI,
LET ME ASK YOU, AS YOU'RE SUCH
AN EXPERT IN THIS: WHAT IS
THE LONG-TERM EFFECT ON A
CHILD WHO IS ABUSED?
WE HEARD IN MATT'S PACKET
SAYING THAT THESE ARE THE
LIKELY ABUSERS OF THEIR OWN
CHILDREN PERHAPS.
WHAT ARE THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS
OF CHILD ABUSE?
>> IF I MIGHT JUST STEP BACK.
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN WE
BELIEVED THAT ALL ONE NEEDED
TO DO WAS TREAT THE
MALTREATING PARENT OR PARENTS
AND THE CHILD WOULD BE FINE.
RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT
MALTREATMENT EXERTS A VERY
HARMFUL IMPACT ON BOTH THE
BIOLOGICAL, PHYSICAL AND
PSYCHOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT OF
CHILDREN WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED
ONE OR MORE OF THE TYPES OF
MALTREATMENT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A NORMAL
DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE AND
LOOK AT THE CRITICAL ISSUES
FOR CHILDREN TO MASTER, TO
HELP OPTIMIZE THEM DOING WELL
IN SCHOOL, DEVELOPING OPTIMAL
MENTAL HEALTH, THINGS LIKE
FORMING SECURE RELATIONSHIPS
WITH THEIR PARENTS, HAVING A
GOOD SENSE OF SELF, HAVING
EFFECTIVE PEER RELATIONS,
ADAPTING WELL TO SCHOOL AND
THE LIKE, MALTREATED CHILDREN
TYPICALLY SHOW MAJOR
DIFFICULTIES IN THOSE AREAS OF
FUNCTIONING.
>> Gary Walker: ALL RIGHT.
LET ME JUST ASK RIGHT NOW
BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE
ARE PROBABLY WONDERING WELL,
WHY IN THE WORLD ARE CASES UP
IN MONROE COUNTY?
WE'RE A CARING COMMUNITY;
WE'RE RELATIVELY WELL OFF; THE
ECONOMY HAS BEEN SOLID
THROUGHOUT THE '90s; THE
ECONOMIC DOWNSLIDE HAS NOT
AFFECTED OUR AREA AS MUCH...
WHY MORE CASES REPORTED HERE?
>> I THINK THE FIRST THING I
WOULD SAY IS THAT THE MORE
STRIKING THING TO ME IS THAT
WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET
THIS DOWN IN ALMOST A DECADE.
AND WE HAVE HAD THE SAME
NUMBER OF CASES WHICH IS, YOU
KNOW, OVER 5,000, FOR OVER A
DECADE.
THE SPIKE OVER THE LAST YEAR
OR TWO, WE'RE FINDING MORE
CASES, MORE ATTENTION TO
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, MORE
ATTENTION TO ACTUALLY
INTERPRETING AND TRYING TO
FIND MORE REPORTED CASES, SO
IT MAY NOT BE MORE ABUSE; IT
MAY BE FINDING MORE ABUSE.
HIGH CORRELATION WITH
SUBSTANCE ABUSE, HIGH
CORRELATION WITH MENTAL HEALTH
PROBLEMS, HIGH CORRELATION
WITH PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN
POVERTY BECAUSE OF THOSE
ISSUES.
IF WE DON'T ADDRESS THE CAUSES
SUCH AS PARENTING EDUCATION --
PEOPLE ARE NOT WELL EDUCATED
ON HOW TO PARENT KIDS.
THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS WHY
IT HASN'T GONE DOWN.
>> Gary Walker: BOB BARNES,
YOU HEAD THE IMPACT TEAM AND
YOU SEE THE WORST CASES OF
CHILD ABUSE AND MALTREATMENT
IN OUR COMMUNITY.
WE KNOW THAT THE REPORTED
CASES ARE UP.
ARE THE MOST SEVERE OF THE
CASES THAT YOU SEE, ARE THOSE
NUMBERS UP?
>> WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN
THE NUMBER OF PHYSICAL ABUSE
CASES AND CHILD FATALITY CASES
THAT WE INVESTIGATE.
WE'RE FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE A
MULTIDISCIPLINARY TEAM THAT
DOES JOINT INVESTIGATIONS INTO
THOSE SITUATIONS SO THAT WE
COORDINATE THOSE
INVESTIGATIONS WITH THE
ROCHESTER POLICE DEPARTMENT,
THE MONROE COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE, THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THE CITY
SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND
CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL AT STRONG,
AND WITH THAT TEAM, WE'RE
SEEING MORE SUCCESSFUL
INTERVENTIONS INTO THOSE
SITUATIONS.
>> Gary Walker: WHAT ABOUT
FATALITIES?
FATALITIES ARE STEADY, UP?
>> IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, WE
HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE
NUMBER OF CHILD FATALITIES IN
MONROE COUNTY THAT HAVE COME
TO OUR ATTENTION THAT WE HAVE
INVESTIGATED.
ACTUALLY, I BELIEVE IN 1997,
WE SAW ELEVEN CHILD FATALITIES
THAT WE INVESTIGATED.
>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK ALL
OF YOU THIS.
I WAS READING SOME OF THE
BACKGROUND ON THIS AND I KNOW
THERE WAS SOME FOCUS GROUPS
DONE AND SOME TESTING DONE BY
THE COUNTY ON THIS, AND I WAS
SHOCKED TO FIND OUT THAT WHILE
MOST PEOPLE WOULD RECOGNIZE
CHILD ABUSE AND RECOGNIZE WHAT
MALTREATMENT WAS, ONLY HALF
SAID THEY WOULD REPORT IT.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>> WHAT THE RESEARCH MADE OF
IT AND WHAT OUR EXPERIENCE IS
IS THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN THEY REPORT A
CHILD.
THEY DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING
TO HELP OR IF IT'S GOING TO
HURT.
WE HAVE A LOT OF LACK OF
INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S GOING
TO HAPPEN AFTER THAT REPORT.
THERE'S A LOT OF THEIR OWN
FEELINGS ABOUT PRIVACY.
THEY HAVEN'T BEEN REAWAKENED,
I THINK, SUFFICIENTLY TO SEE
THAT THEY HAVE TO ACT ON
BEHALF OF KIDS.
>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK
THIS: I KNOW THERE ARE SOME
ORGANIZATIONS AND SOME
INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY ARE
MANDATED; THEY MUST REPORT IT:
A TEACHER, CHILD CARE WORKER,
ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
BUT FOR JUST A CITIZEN
REPORTING, WHAT DOES HAPPEN?
MAYBE WE CAN TELL THEM RIGHT
HERE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN
TO THEM IF THEY REPORT A
SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE CASE?
>> BOB?
>> ANY CASE ACCEPTED AS A
REFERRAL IS GOING TO RESULT IN
A CHILD PROTECTIVE
INVESTIGATION.
IN GENERAL, ANYONE WHO MAKES A
CHILD PROTECTIVE REFERRAL,
THEY'RE GOING TO BE KEPT
CONFIDENTIAL AS THE SOURCE OF
THE REPORT.
OUR CONCERN IS RECEIVING THAT
INFORMATION THROUGH THE FRONT
DOOR.
WE'RE A REACTIVE AGENCY; WE'RE
DEPENDENT UPON GETTING THE
INFORMATION SO THAT WE CAN
CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS.
>> Gary Walker: ARE PEOPLE'S
PRIVACIES -- WILL THEY BE
BROUGHT IN TO FACE -- DO THE
PEOPLE REPORTED ON KNOW WHO
REPORTED THEM?
>> NO.
BY LAW, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO
DISCLOSE THE SOURCE OF THE
REPORT TO THE FAMILY.
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN
THE REPORT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED
WITH THE FAMILY, BUT THE
PERSON WHO MADE THE REPORT IS
GOING TO BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL.
>> Gary Walker: YOU SAID
ONE-THIRD OF THE CASES PAN OUT
IN THAT THE STATE TAKES
ACTION.
THAT MEANS TWO-THIRDS DOESN'T.
DOES HAVING TWO-THIRDS OF THE
CASES ACTUALLY NOT
MALTREATMENT... DOES THAT HAVE
KIND OF A CHILLING EFFECT ON
YOUR REACTION TO THE OTHER
THIRD?
>> WELL, YOU CAN LOOK AT IT
THAT IT'S POTENTIALLY A DRAIN
ON RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE
AVAILABLE TO PROVIDE RESOURCES
TO FAMILIES AND CHILDREN THAT
NEED THEM.
>> Gary Walker: ARE MOST OF
THOSE LEGITIMATE AT LEAST
REFERRALS IN YOUR MIND OR ARE
A LOT OF THEM THAT ARE
SPECIOUS, A LOT OF THEM THAT
ARE VINDICTIVE?
>> WELL, THERE'S VERY STRAIGHT
FORWARD, VINDICTIVE ONES...
>> Gary Walker: ARE MOST OF
THEM TRULY --
>> THERE'S A LOT OF
MISINFORMATION IN THE
COMMUNITY ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY
CONSTITUTES A REPORT AND A LOT
LESS THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY FIND
THAN ONES THAT COME IN THE
FRONT DOOR.
>> Gary Walker: Dr. CICCHETTI,
I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY,
"WELL, YOU KNOW, I DISCIPLINE
MY CHILD.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
-- WHAT'S THE LINE BETWEEN
DISCIPLINE AND MALTREATMENT?"
>> WELL, MALTREATMENT VIOLATES
SOCIETAL AND CULTURAL
STANDARDS.
MALTREATMENT HAS A VERY
HARMFUL IMPACT ON CHILDREN.
ONE THING I WANTED TO RESPOND
TO WAS THERE WERE ELEVEN
FATALITIES RECENTLY, AND I
THINK THAT PEOPLE READ THAT,
"OH, MY GOD!
ELEVEN CHILDREN DIED."
AND THAT IS HORRIBLE.
DIANNE MENTIONED THAT PEOPLE
DON'T WANT TO REFER
MALTREATMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE
NOT CERTAIN WHAT HAPPENS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'RE NOT
SURE ABOUT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO
THE CHILDREN.
AND ALTHOUGH, FOR EXAMPLE,
ELEVEN DIE, THOSE WHO ARE
ALIVE, MANY OF THEM ARE LIVING
A DEATH WHILE ALIVE.
IT IMPACTS ON THEIR
FUNCTIONING, ON THEIR LIFE, ON
THEIR FUTURE RELATIONSHIPS,
DRAINS FROM THEIR FUTURE
CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY,
ECONOMICALLY, ET CETERA, PLUS
THE DRAIN ON SOCIETY FOR
HAVING TO OFFER VARIOUS KINDS
OF HELP TO THEM OVER THE
YEARS.
IT IS, IN A WAY, I HATE TO SAY
IT, BUT IT IS MAYBE WORSE THAN
DEATH.
>> Gary Walker: SOME OF THE
KIDS YOU SEE AT MOUNT HOPE,
AND I KNOW IN SOME CASES IT'S
GROWN EXPONENTIALLY IN THE
LAST DECADE OR SO, THE KIDS
THAT YOU HAVE THERE.
IS IT YOUR FEELING -- ARE
THOSE KIDS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE
SITUATION AT THAT TIME?
ARE THEY IN YOUR CUSTODY?
>> NO, THEY'RE NOT.
THE FAMILIES WHO COME TO MOUNT
HOPE, THE VAST MAJORITY RESIDE
WITH THEIR CAREGIVERS AND OUR
TREATMENT WORKS WITH THE
ENTIRE FAMILY, TYPICALLY A
MOM, SINCE A VERY HIGH
PERCENTAGE OF FAMILIES WHO
MALTREAT THEIR CHILD ARE
CHARACTERIZED BY HAVING ONE
PARENT.
>> Gary Walker: WE'RE ALMOST
OUT OF TIME.
QUICKLY, WHERE IS THIS
HEADING?
ARE WE GETTING OUR ARMS AROUND
THIS?
IS IT GOING TO START REDUCING?
OR ARE WE PRETTY MUCH STEADY?
>> WE ARE KEEPING UP EFFORTS
WITH RESOURCES LIKE
Dr. CICCHETTI'S, BUT WE'RE
ALSO BEGINNING TO LOOK AT
COMMUNITY EDUCATION AROUND
WHAT TO REPORT --
>> Gary Walker: LIKE THOSE
COMMERCIALS FOR SHAKEN BABY.
>> SHAKEN BABY IS OURS AND
UNITED WAY.
LOOKING MORE AT PARENTING
EDUCATION, TRYING TO GET AHEAD
OF IT IN THE COMMUNITY RATHER
THAN JUST REACTIVE.
>> Gary Walker: UNFORTUNATELY
THAT IS OUR TIME.
I WANT TO THANK ALL THREE OF
YOU NOT JUST FOR BEING HERE
BUT FOR DOING WHAT YOU DO AND
BEING ON THE FRONT LINES OF
THIS SITUATION IN OUR
COMMUNITY AND COMING ON AND
GIVING US AN EDUCATION ABOUT
IT.
IF YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION
ON CHILD ABUSE OR LOCAL
SERVICES AVAILABLE, JUST
PLEASE LOG ON TO OUR WEB SITE
AT wxxi.org/ntk.
NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH "THE DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE."
(Music)
JOINING US NOW IN STUDIO IS
ELLEN ROSEN.
SHE'S THE BUSINESS
EDITOR FOR "THE
DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, THANK YOU.
WELCOME BACK.
>> Ellen Rosen: THANK YOU,
GARY.
GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> Gary Walker: YOU KNOW WHAT
HAPPENS TOMORROW: ALL HELL
BREAKS LOOSE IN MALLS FOR THE
ANNUAL KICKOFF OF THE SHOPPING
SEASON.
MAYBE YOU CAN JUST GIVE US A
THUMBNAIL OF WHAT TO EXPECT.
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, AS WE
SAID IN OUR STORY THAT RAN
LAST SUNDAY IN THE NEWSPAPER,
THE ONLY THING THAT'S CERTAIN
IS UNCERTAINTY THIS YEAR.
RETAILERS ARE NOT EXACTLY SURE
WHAT TO EXPECT.
THEY'RE GETTING MIXED SIGNALS
FROM SHOPPERS AS TO WHETHER
THEY'LL BE SPENDING MORE,
SPENDING LESS, AND THEY HAVE
BEEN AGGRESSIVELY GOING AFTER
THEM EVEN EARLIER.
PRE-THANKSGIVING SALES,
COLUMBUS SALES
HAVE BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE
IN THEIR MARKETING.
>> Gary Walker: THAT'S GOT TO
BE HARD ON A RETAILER BECAUSE
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO
EXPECT, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW
MUCH INVENTORY.
>> Ellen Rosen: I THINK THEY
HAVE DONE SOME ADJUSTING OF
INVENTORY TO COMPENSATE.
THEY'VE HAD PREDICTIONS -- THE
LAST REALLY GOOD CHRISTMAS WAS
1999.
TRADITIONALLY CHRISTMAS WAS
ABOUT 25% OF THEIR SALES FOR
THE ENTIRE YEAR HAPPENED IN
THAT BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME.
BUT CHRISTMAS WAS OFF LAST
YEAR AND THEY'RE EXPECTING
IT'S GOING TO BE OFF OR FLAT
AGAIN.
IN ORDER REALLY FOR CHRISTMAS
TO BE SUCCESSFUL, IT HAS TO BE
WAY ABOVE WHERE IT WAS LAST
YEAR.
HOLDING YOUR OWN ISN'T GOOD.
>> Gary Walker: 25% OF ALL
SALES... YIKES!
DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING
TO BE SPENDING LESS OR
BARGAIN-SHOPPING MORE THIS
YEAR?
>> Ellen Rosen: IT'S
INTERESTING.
WE HAVE A LITTLE POLL UP, AN
UNSCIENTIFIC SURVEY ON OUR
democratandchronicle.com
WEB
SITE.
WE HAVE BEEN ASKING PEOPLE
THAT VERY THING: "HOW MUCH
WILL YOU BE SPENDING AND WHERE
WILL YOU BE SPENDING IT?"
THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN
ANSWERING THAT HAVE BEEN
SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO SPEND
LESS THIS YEAR, AND THEY'RE
GOING TO BE SPENDING IT IN
DISCOUNT STORES.
THE WAL-MARTS AND THE K-MARTS
AND THE TARGETS ARE GOING TO
BE GETTING A LOT OF BUSINESS.
>> Gary Walker: I READ A
REPORT RECENTLY, MAYBE I READ
IT IN "THE DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE," THAT WAL-MART IS
REPORTING THEY ARE GETTING A
DIFFERENT BREED OF SHOPPER IN
THEIR DOOR, MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO
IS MORE UPSCALE, SOMEONE WHO
SHOPPED AT THE MALLS AND
DEPARTMENT STORES.
NOW, THEY'RE FINDING THEIR WAY
INTO WAL-MART.
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, TO
PARAPHRASE, THIS IS NOT YOUR
FATHER'S WAL-MART ANY MORE.
WAL-MART HAS A VERY DIFFERENT
LOOK.
IF YOU'VE GONE TO THE NEW
SUPERCENTER IN GATES, IT'S A
VERY UPSCALE-LOOKING STORE.
THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE
GROCERIES AND OTHER ITEMS IN
IT NOW, PEOPLE ARE GIVING IT A
SECOND LOOK AND THEY'RE SEEING
IT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT FROM
THE WAL-MART DISCOUNT-LOOKING
KIND OF STORE THAT THEY WERE
USED TO.
>> Gary Walker: SO WAL-MART
WOULD BE A TYPE OF STORE THAT
WOULD LIKELY DO WELL THIS
SEASON?
WHAT OTHER --
>> Ellen Rosen: WAL-MART,
TARGET, THOSE STORES...
ALTHOUGH DEPARTMENT STORES ARE
SUPPOSED TO DO WELL.
THEY WOULD BE PROBABLY IN
SECOND PLACE.
>> Gary Walker: WILL SHOPPERS
BE BUYING FEWER BUT QUALITY
GIFTS OR DO YOU THINK THEY'LL
BE BUYING MORE OF THE BARGAIN
GIFTS?
>> Ellen Rosen: WHAT THEY'RE
TRYING TO FIND IS THAT QUALITY
AT A REDUCED PRICE WHICH IS
WHY RETAILERS ARE GOING AFTER
THAT WITH 15% OFF COUPONS AND
EXTRA SALES.
FOR INSTANCE, WE HAVE HEARD
FROM SOME OF THE JEWELERS --
JEWELRY IS A VERY POPULAR
PRESENT AT THIS TIME OF YEAR
-- THAT PEOPLE ARE BUYING LESS
EXPENSIVE JEWELRY.
THE AVERAGE TICKET THAT'S
DROPPED IN A STORE ON A GIVEN
DAY ISN'T AS HIGH AS IT WAS
PREVIOUSLY.
>> Gary Walker: I WONDER, FOR
INSTANCE LAST YEAR I DID MOST
OF MY SHOPPING ON-LINE, HAD IT
DELIVERED.
BUT GIVEN THE PROBLEMS WITH
THE MAIL, GIVEN THE PROBLEMS
WITH DELIVERIES, DO YOU THINK
IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE
SITUATION?
DO YOU THINK THAT WORLD EVENTS
AND NATIONAL EVENTS ARE GOING
TO IMPACT ON-LINE SHOPPING AND
MAIL SHOPPING AND CATALOGUE
SHOPPING?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, WE HAD A
STORY A WEEK AGO THAT SAID
THAT REALLY THE MAIL IS NOT
GOING TO BE AN ISSUE.
THE POST OFFICE DOESN'T EXPECT
TO HAVE TROUBLE DELIVERING
ANYTHING OR HAVE ANY PROBLEMS
AND ON-LINE SALES ARE SUPPOSED
TO HOLD THEIR OWN THIS YEAR,
PARTICULARLY IN CERTAIN
SEGMENTS.
MASS MERCHANDISE SHOULD BE
OKAY, GARDENING, SPORTING
GOODS.
>> Gary Walker: SO DO YOU
THINK -- IF IT HOLDS ITS OWN,
THOUGH, AS YOU SAID -- A
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WE THOUGHT
ON-LINE AND CATALOGUES WERE
REALLY JUST ON THE SKYROCKET
UP.
THAT'S LEVELED OFF, DO YOU
THINK?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S WHAT THEY CALL A
BRICK-AND-MORTAR AND THEN
THERE'S A BRICK-AND-CLICK.
PEOPLE STILL LIKE TO GO INTO A
STORE; THEY LIKE TO FEEL THE
GARMENT THEY'RE GOING TO BUY;
THEY LIKE TO TRY IT ON.
PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE --
ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE GIVING A
GIFT, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT
IT IS THEY'RE GETTING.
SO WHILE ON-LINE HAS A CERTAIN
APPEAL IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE
PRODUCT IS, PEOPLE STILL ENJOY
THE ACTIVITY OF SHOPPING,
WHICH IS WHY DEPARTMENT STORES
AND DISCOUNT DEPARTMENT STORES
LIKE WAL-MART AND TARGETS ARE
DOING WELL.
>> Gary Walker: DO YOU HAVE
ANY FEELING ABOUT THE NATURE
OF THE THINGS -- FOR INSTANCE,
I KNOW IN SOMETIMES LEAN
YEARS, YOU TEND TO BUY THINGS
PEOPLE NEED AS OPPOSED TO WHAT
THEY WANT.
YOU MAY BUY THEM A BLENDER AS
OPPOSED TO A TIE OR SHIRT OR
SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN LIVE
WITHOUT.
>> Ellen Rosen: YEAH, I GUESS
I DON'T REALLY HAVE AN ANSWER
TO THAT.
I THINK THE HIGH-END LUXURY
ITEMS MAY BE DOWN THIS YEAR,
BUT "X" BOX IS OUT.
PLAYSTATION 2 DID VERY WELL
LAST YEAR AND I EXPECT THINGS
LIKE THAT WILL STILL BE
SELLING.
BUT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, WHAT
THE JEWELLERY STORES ARE
TELLING US, AND I THINK THIS
IS A DIRECT EFFECT OF
SEPTEMBER 11th, IS THAT
DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RINGS ARE
UP.
>> Gary Walker: THERE YOU GO.
LAST QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU.
WHAT'S COMING UP?
ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING ON
THIS IN "THE DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE"?
>> Ellen Rosen: YES, ACTUALLY
TOMORROW WE'LL HAVE AN
EXTENSIVE STORY.
WE'LL BE COVERING WHAT THEY
CALL "BLACK FRIDAY," THE BIG
DAY AFTER THANKSGIVING
SHOPPING DAY, AND WE'LL HAVE A
SERIES OF STORIES THROUGHOUT
THE SEASON KEEPING TABS ON HOW
OUR RETAILING ECONOMY IS
DOING.
>> Gary Walker: I CAN TELL YOU
I WON'T BE HELPING THE ECONOMY
THAT DAY BECAUSE WALKING IN
THOSE STORES THE DAY AFTER IS
JUST...
ELLEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
THIS WEEK'S REPORT.
AND NOW, LET'S TAKE A LOOK
INTO "CAMERA OBSCURA."
CUBAN-BORN ABELARDO MORELL
USES THIS RENAISSANCE
TECHNIQUE TO CREATE UNIQUE
VIEWS OF ORDINARY OBJECTS.
(Music)
>> THEY ARE DARK SPACES WITH
SMALL OPENINGS ALLOWING LIGHT
INTO THEM, PRODUCING IMAGES.
THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR A LONG
TIME.
EVEN ARISTOTLE TALKS ABOUT IT.
IT WAS EVENTUALLY CULMINATED
WITH PHOTOGRAPHY, THE BOX THAT
CAN MAKE IMAGES.
I JUST LOOK AT IT AND RUB IT
THROUGH SOME CHEMICALS, SO THE
CAMERA OBSCURA IS REALLY THE
GRANDSON OF PHOTOGRAPHY, YOU
KNOW.
SO TO ME, IT'S INTERESTING,
THE IDEA THAT IN MY OWN MODERN
PHOTOGRAPHS, I CAN EXPLORE
THIS VERY ANCIENT THING.
THIS IS A CAMERA OBSCURA
PHOTOGRAPH AND IT'S A LITTLE
BIT COMPLICATED TO EXPLAIN BUT
ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT IS IS THIS
VERY LARGE ROOM IN NEW YORK
CITY, A PENTHOUSE APARTMENT IN
NEW YORK WITH A BUNCH OF
WINDOWS ON THE OTHER SIDE.
I DARKENED THEM, PUT BLACK
PLASTIC ON ALL THE WINDOWS, SO
THE ROOM BECAME TOTALLY BLACK.
THE NEXT STEP WAS TO MAKE A
HOLE ABOUT HALF AN INCH IN
DIAMETER IN ONE OF THOSE
WINDOWS, AND THE LIGHT COMING
IN FROM THE OUTSIDE INTO THE
ROOM ACTUALLY BROUGHT THIS
IMAGE UPSIDE DOWN AGAINST THE
WALL THERE.
I USED TO BE A STREET
PHOTOGRAPHER AND MADE A LOT OF
PICTURES JUST WANDERING AROUND
THE STREETS, AND THEN I HAD A
CHILD AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE
EVERYBODY WHO HAS KIDS, IT
CHANGES YOUR LIFE.
IT CHANGED MY PHOTOGRAPHY.
I DECIDED TO STAY HOME AND
PHOTOGRAPH JUST THE SCENES AT
HOME: THE TOYS, MY SON
GROWING UP.
IT WAS AN IMPORTANT DISCOVERY
TO SEE THAT VERY MINUTE THINGS
AT HOME COULD BE MONUMENTAL
AND INTERESTING.
SO THE ASPECT OF HIM LOOKING
AT A SHADOW, IT'S LIKE A
PICTURE OF HIM LOOKING INTO
THE FUTURE OR SOMETHING.
IT CHANGED MY PHOTOGRAPHY A
LOT, AND I THINK ALL THE WORK
THAT I DO NOW IS STILL RELATED
TO THIS IDEA OF LOOKING AT
PRETTY ORDINARY THINGS AND,
YOU KNOW, FINDING DRAMA IN
THEM.
I TOOK A PHOTOGRAPHY COURSE,
AND THAT WAS IT.
ONE COURSE.
AND MY PICTURES KIND OF TOLD
ME THAT I WASN'T GOING TO BE
AN ARTIST.
>> Gary Walker: ABEL MORELL'S
WORK IS CURRENTLY ON EXHIBIT
AT THE GEORGE EASTMAN HOUSE
THROUGH JANUARY 6th.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS
WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED TO
KNOW" OR TO DISCUSS ANY OF
THESE TOPICS, JUST LOG ON TO
wxxi.org/ntk.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
HAVE A SAFE HOLIDAY.