>> Elissa: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED

TO KNOW," IT'S BEEN A PART OF

NEW YORK STATE'S HISTORY AND

ECONOMIC GROWTH FOR 175 YEAR,

AND NOW THE ERIE CANAL IS ONCE

AGAIN LEADING THE WAY FOR NEXT

WEEK'S "WORLD CANALS CONFERENCE

2000" HELD HERE IN ROCHESTER.

JUST AHEAD WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT

THE CANAL'S EARLY DAYS, RECENT

REVITALIZATION EFFORTS, AND

WE'LL SEE HOW ONE LOCAL VILLAGE

PLANS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ITS

CANAL WATERFRONT.

IT'S ALL COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED

TO KNOW."

>> THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES OUT

THERE FOR THE TOWNS TO SELL

THEMSELVES FOR YEAR-ROUND

DESTINATIONS.

>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE

ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH

NEWS PROGRAM.

"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION

OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS

COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS,

EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.

>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS

JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL

LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT

OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> NOW FROM WXXI PUBLIC

BROADCASTING, HERE ARE GARY

WALKER AND ELISSA MARRA.

>> Elissa: THANKS FOR JOINING

US.

I'M ELISSA MARRA.

GARY WALKER HAS THIS WEEK OFF.

NEW YORK STATE'S CANAL SYSTEM

HAS LONG BEEN A PART OF NEW YORK

STATE'S HISTORY AND CULTURE.

NOW PLANS ARE IN MOTION TO

INCREASE ITS VISIBILITY AND ITS

REVENUE POTENTIAL.

THE WORLD CANALS CONFERENCE 2000

WILL BE HELD LOCALLY NEXT WEEK.

ORGANIZERS ARE HOPING TO DRAW

ATTENTION TO THE CANAL'S

REVITALIZATION.

CURRENT DEVELOPMENT PLANS CALL

FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE

ANAL'S CONVERSION FROM A

OMMERCIAL TRANSPORTATION

PIPELINE FOR THE STATE TO A

STATE TOURISM JEWEL.

>> TOURISTS NEED TO

HAVE PLACES TO GO.

BOATERS NEED LAUNDRY FACILITIES.

THEY NEED PUMP-OUT STATIONS,

MARINAS.

THEY NEED SHOPS TO COME VISIT,

RESTAURANTS TO GO AND EAT AT.

WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TO

TOUT THE CANAL SYSTEM AS A

TERRIFIC RECREATIONAL AND

BOATING RESOURCE FOR FOLKS TO

COME AND VISIT.

IT'S A DESTINATION NOW.

IT'S NOT JUST A COMMERCIAL

WATERWAY BUT IT'S A DESTINATION.

>> Elissa: THE CANAL SYSTEM HAS

BEEN A AS MUCH A PART OF NEW

YORK STATE'S HISTORY AS IT HAS

BEEN A PART OF ITS ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT.

THE CANAL OPENED ON OCTOBER 26,

1825, WHEN GOVERNOR DeWITT

CLINTON SET OUT FROM BUFFALO IN

A CANAL BOAT CALLED "THE SENECA

CHIEF."

THE CANAL SYSTEM IS MADE UP OF

FOUR SEPARATE CANALS, ACTUALLY,

INCLUDING THE ERIE, OSWEGO,

CHAMPLAIN AND CAYUGA-SENECA.

IN TOTAL IT IS 524 MILES LONG.

THE CANAL'S DAYS AS AN

INDUSTRIAL WATERWAY ARE LONG

GONE NOW, BUT IT DOES CONTINUE

TO GENERATE SUBSTANTIAL REVENUE

BY OTHER MEANS.

THE ERIE CANAL GROSSED ALMOST

$5.2 MILLION IN 1999 AND IS

PROJECTED TO GENERATE MORE THAN

$7.5 MILLION THIS YEAR.

THAT MONEY COMES FROM CANAL

TOLLS, HYDRO POWER LEASES,

PERMIT FEES, FEDERAL AID AND

FROM LOCAL GRANTS.

NEXT WEEK, WXXI WILL PRESENT A

SPECIAL DOCUMENTARY ON THE ERIE

CANAL.

THE PROGRAM AIRS ON SATURDAY,

SEPTEMBER 9th, AND ON SUNDAY,

SEPTEMBER 10th.

"CANAL TOWNS" BRINGS THE HISTORY

OF THE ERIE CANAL TO LIFE.

HERE IS WXXI'S WYATT DOREMUS

WITH AN EXCERPT FROM THAT

PROGRAM.

>> THE ERIE CANAL

IS A TRIBUTE TO VISION, ITS

ROUTE DETERMINED BY AN ICE AGE.

DeWITT CLINTON IS THE PERSON

MOST CREDITED.

IN THE FEW YEARS THAT THE

DETRACTORS HAD TO JEER THE IDEA,

THEY FOREVER TIED THE CANAL TO

ITS MOST POWERFUL BOOSTER,

CALLING IT CLINTON'S DITCH.

CLINTON HAD THE VISION THAT

THOMAS JEFFERSON LACKED.

JEFFERSON LIKED THE IDEA OF A

CANAL FROM LAKE ERIE TO ALBANY

BUT THOUGHT THAT NEW YORK WAS AT

LEAST A CENTURY TOO EARLY IN ITS

PLANNING.

JEFFERSON ALSO PREDICTED THAT

SUCH A PROJECT WOULD BANKRUPT

THE NATION, LET ALONE A STATE.

NEW YORK WENT AHEAD ANYWAY.

>> $7 MILLION IT

COST TO BUILD THE ERIE CANAL, 2

MILLION FOR THE CHAMPLAIN CANAL

UNITING ALBANY WITH THE SOUTHERN

END OF LAKE CHAMPLAIN.

SO THE WHOLE THING, ABOUT $9

MILLION.

IN 1822 DOLLARS!

I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST, BUT THAT

WOULD BE A LOT OF MONEY TODAY.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, $9 MILLION.

RIGHT NOW, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

PERHAPS, AND YET IT PAID FOR

ITSELF IN TEN YEARS FROM THE

TOLLS THAT WERE GENERATED.

>> HOWEVER IT

CAME TO BE AS A SYSTEM, ITS

ROUTE THROUGH ROCHESTER MADE

GEOLOGIC SENSE.

>> THE SURVEYORS CHOSE

THREE LOCATIONS ACTUALLY.

ONE WAS ALONG THE SOUTH SHORE OF

LAKE ONTARIO.

ONE WAS THROUGH ROCHESTER, WHERE

IT DID RUN IN THE 1800s.

THE OTHER PLACE WAS JUST SOUTH

OF THE ROCHESTER AREA.

BUT THE ROCHESTER AREA WAS

CHOSEN BECAUSE THE FLOOR OF THE

RIVERBED IN THIS AREA WAS SOLID

ROCK, WHICH GAVE VERY GOOD

SUPPORT FOR THE WEIGHT OF THE

WATER AND FOR THE CANAL.

>> ROCHESTER'S

RAPID GROWTH AFTER THE OPENING

OF THE CANAL CAME AT THE EXPENSE

OF OTHER AREA COMMUNITIES.

>> WHEN ROCHESTER WAS

STILL A MUD HOLE DOWN IN THE

HUNDRED ACRE TRACT, CANANDAIGUA

AND GENEVA AND BATAVIA WERE

FLOURISHING COMMUNITIES,

AND ROCHESTER WAS, YOU KNOW,

THAT SWAMP UP THERE.

>> WE HAD THE

WATERFALLS, THE POWER TO DRIVE

OUR MILLS, AND WE MADE ALL KINDS

OF PRODUCTS, GRAIN, FLOUR AND SO

FORTH.

BUT WITHOUT GETTING THOSE GOODS

CHEAPLY TO MARKET, WE WOULDN'T

HAVE GONE VERY FAR.

>> THE RESULT

YOU COULD SEE BY WHAT HAPPENED

TO ROCHESTER, IT'S SIMILAR TO

THE THRUWAYS TODAY.

IF YOU DON'T PUT AN EXIT AT YOUR

PLACE, NO ONE STOPS.

THEY JUST GO RIGHT BY.

>> THE CONFLUENCE OF

THE ERIE CANAL AND GENESEE RIVER

ARE WHAT MADE ROCHESTER.

I MEAN, FORGET KODAK, BAUSCH &

LOMB, GLEASON, XEROX, ANYBODY

ELSE.

WHAT MADE ROCHESTER THE YOUNG

LION OF THE WEST IN 1825 WAS

WHERE THE RIVER AND THE CANAL

CAME TOGETHER, WHICH OF COURSE

IN THOSE DAYS WAS DOWNTOWN.

>> THE PRODUCT

THAT MADE THE YOUNG LION OF THE

WEST ROAR WAS WHEAT, LOTS OF IT

AND OF THE BEST QUALITY.

FLOUR MILLS SPRUNG UP ON BOTH

SIDES OF THE GENESEE.

>> BUT THEN YOU HAD

TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT, LIKE

GET IT OUT OF HERE.

AND YOU COULD PUT MAYBE 40

BARRELS ON AN OX-DRIVEN OX BOAT

WAGON AND IT WOULD TAKE YOU FIVE

WEEKS TO GET TO ALBANY, AND IT

WOULD COST YOU 80 BUCKS A

BARREL, AND IT GETS VERY HARD TO

DO MUCH TRADE THAT WAY.

THE WEEK AFTER THE CANAL OPENED

IN 1825, 10,000 BARRELS OF FLOUR

WERE SHIPPED OUT OF ROCHESTER

DOWN TO ALBANY, NEW YORK AND

EUROPE IN SIX DAYS AT 8 BUCKS A

BARREL, AND THE ECONOMY JUST

EXPLODED.

>> MORE FLOUR WAS MADE IN

ROCHESTER, NEW YORK, THAN IN ANY

OTHER SPOT ON THE GLOBE, AND

EVEN QUEEN VICTORIA PREFERRED

ROCHESTER FLOUR.

ONE YEAR SHE ORDERED 6,000

BARRELS OF ROCHESTER FLOUR FOR

TO STOCK UP THE ROYAL KITCHENS

OF ENGLAND, AND SHE SAID IT MADE

THE BEST CAKES.

>> WITH GROWTH,

PARTICULARLY THE SURGE

EXPERIENCED BY ROCHESTER IN ITS

WILD WEST DAYS, THERE WAS ALWAYS

A PRICE.

THAT WASN'T ALWAYS IMMEDIATELY

APPARENT TO EVERY VISITOR.

>> NATHANIEL HAWTHORNE SAID HE HAD

SAID ROCHESTER WAS A BOOMTOWN

AND HE EXPECTED TO SEE A LOT

SHANTIES AND LEAN-TOS, BUT THAT

ISN'T WHAT HE FOUND.

HE FOUND THAT PEOPLE WHO HAD

COME FROM NEW ENGLAND HAD PRETTY

MUCH RECREATED THEIR VISION OF A

COMMUNITY, SOME VERY PURITANICAL

IDEAS AS WE WOULD CONSIDER THEM

TODAY.

THEY HAD A WORK ETHIC.

THEY WANTED EVERYONE TO WORK A

GOOD, HARD DAY WHICH MIGHT HAVE

BEEN A 12-HOUR DAY THEN, SIX

DAYS A WEEK, TAKING SUNDAY

ALWAYS FOR A DAY OF REST.

SO WIVES OF THE MEN WHO WERE THE

BUILDERS OF THE CITY TOOK IT ON

THEMSELVES TO BUILD THE

HOSPITALS, THE ORPHANAGES, THE

DAY CARES, WHATEVER WAS NEEDED

FOR THE CITY.

>> Elissa: AND UNTIL THIS PAST

DECADE, NO MAJOR DEVELOPMENT

PLANS HAD BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR

THE CANAL SYSTEM FOR MANY YEARS.

THEN IN 1991, THE CANAL CAME

UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE NEW

YORK STATE'S THRUWAY AUTHORITY.

IN 1996, A FIVE-YEAR $32 MILLION

REVITALIZATION PLAN WAS

INITIATED WITH ITS GOALS TO

PRESERVE CANAL INFRASTRUCTURE

AND ENHANCE RECREATIONAL

OPPORTUNITIES AND ALSO TO FOSTER

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE

WATERWAY.

IN ADDITION, OF THE STATE

THRUWAY AUTHORITIES' CURRENT

SIX-YEAR $1.5 BILLION CAPITAL

CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM, $125

MILLION HAS BEEN EARMARKED TO

THOSE AREAS.

I'M ELISSA MARRA AND YOU ARE

WATCHING "NEED TO KNOW," AND

JOINING ME IN THE STUDIO NOW TO

DISCUSS THE CANAL'S HISTORY AND

FUTURE ARE TOM GRASSO.

HE IS A MEMBER OF THE NEW YORK

STATE CANAL SOCIETY, AND HE IS

CO-CHAIR OF THE WORLD CANALS

CONFERENCE 2000.

AND ALSO WITH US IS DAVID

MARTIN, A DIVISION CANAL

ENGINEER FOR THE CANAL SYSTEM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US,

GENTLEMEN.

LET'S JUST START WITH THE

CONFERENCE THAT IS COMING UP

NEXT WEEK.

NOW, DO YOU IN FACT TRAVEL THE

WORLD?

DOES IN FACT THE CONFERENCE

TRAVEL THE WORLD TO LOOK AT

CANALS?

>> PRIMARILY EUROPE AND NORTH

AMERICA.

THE CONFERENCE HAS BEEN IN

EUROPE SEVERAL TIMES, AND NOW

IT'S IN NORTH AMERICA.

WE KIND OF FLIP-FLOP BETWEEN

EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA.

>> Elissa: AND WE'VE JUST SEEN

A HISTORICAL PIECE FROM WYATT

ABOUT THE POPULARITY OF THE

CANALS IN ECONOMIC AREAS,

CERTAINLY WHAT IT DID FOR NEW

YORK STATE.

WE ALSO HEAR HIM SAY ABOUT THE

POPULARITY OF THE EUROPEAN

CANALS.

IN FACT WE KNOW THAT EUROPEAN

CANALS ARE POPULAR FOR TOURISTS.

ARE THERE UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT

EUROPEAN CANALS IN TERMS OF

THEIR DESIGN THAT SETS THEM

APART FROM OUR CANALS HERE,

OR ARE ALL CANALS BASICALLY THE

SAME?

>> I WOULD THINK THEY'RE PRETTY

MUCH THE SAME EXCEPT FOR SIZE.

THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED

DRAMATICALLY SINCE THE FRENCH IN

THE 1600s STARTED BUILDING

CANALS OVER LAND.

A LOT MAY BE WIDER, LONGER, BUT

ESSENTIALLY THE MECHANICS OF IT,

HOW TO GET WATER TO A CANAL,

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ON A HIGH

PLATEAU, IS A DAUNTING TASK.

AND THAT WAS SOLVED BY THE

FRENCH.

THEY WENT TO THE ENGLISH CANALS

LATER, AND THEN WE ADOPTED IT

HERE.

I THINK THE REASON THEY'RE MORE

TOURISM-ORIENTED IS THE FACT

THAT THEY'VE BEEN IN THE GAME

LONGER, SINCE THE LATE '40s, THE

'50s, WHEREAS OUR CANAL WAS

STILL AT THE BOTTOM OF THE

COMMERCIAL PIPELINE, AS YOU

SAID, RIGHT UNTIL THE LATE

1980s.

>> Elissa: RIGHT. LET'S TALK A

LITTLE BIT ABOUT STRUCTURE

BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE'S MONEY

EARMARKED FOR INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND YOU, DAVID, YOU CAME FROM

THE DEPARTMENT OF

TRANSPORTATION, IS THAT CORRECT,

TO NOW WORK WITH THE CANALS?

>> YES.

>> Elissa: I GUESS A FORM OF

TRANSPORTATION EVEN NOW.

HOW IS THAT STRUCTURE DIFFERENT

FOR YOU IN TERMS OF WORKING FOR

THE D.O.T. AND THEN COMING INTO

THE WATERWAY, ANOTHER FORM OF

TRANSPORTATION?

>> WELL, COMING OVER TO THE

CANALS IN 1991, I CAME TO WORK

FOR THE CANALS WHILE WE WERE

STILL WITH D.O.T.

SHORTLY AFTER THAT, WE WERE

TRANSFERRED OVER TO THRUWAY

AUTHORITIES.

SHORTLY AFTER THAT, AS YOU

MENTIONED, THE REVITALIZATION

PLAN TOOK EFFECT, AND THAT'S

WHEN THINGS REALLY KICKED INTO

GEAR AS FAR AS TRYING TO DEVELOP

THE CANAL AS A DESTINATION FOR

PEOPLE TO COME, IMPROVE THE

FRONTAGE, THINGS LIKE THE

ROCHESTER HARBOR PROJECT, $1.6

MILLION THAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT

NOW ARE THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF

THAT PLAN.

>> Elissa: WE'VE BEEN LOOKING

AT MILESTONES IN TERMS OF DATES

AND TIMES.

DO YOU THINK THE SWITCH OVER TO

THE THRUWAY AUTHORITY IS GOING

TO BE SEEN AS A MILESTONE 100

YEARS FROM NOW?

>> YES, I THINK SO.

I THINK SO BECAUSE, FOR A LONG

TIME, UNDER D.O.T., THE FOCUS

WAS JUST TO MAINTAIN WHAT WE HAD

AND REALLY, REALLY JUST TO KEEP

THE SYSTEM SAFE, AND NOW WE'RE

MOVING A LITTLE BIT BEYOND THAT.

WE STILL WANT TO KEEP THE SYSTEM

SAFE, BUT WE WANT TO IMPROVE IT

FOR USERS AND MAKE IT A

DESTINATION FOR VISITORS.

>> Elissa: IS THAT THE REASON

THE CANALS CONFERENCE CHOSE THIS

AREA?

>> WELL, THERE'S SEVERAL

REASONS.

ONE IS WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS TO

SHOW THEM.

THERE'S THE DEVELOPMENT HERE.

IT'S THE FIRST AIRPORT BROUGHT

FORTH.

WE HAVE HISTORIC CANAL

STRUCTURES.

WE HAVE THE GREAT EMBANKMENT,

THE GREATEST SINGLE STRUCTURE IN

THE ENTIRE LINE OF THE CANAL.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE EQUATED IT TO

THE PYRAMIDS OF EGYPT, YOU KNOW.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS; WE

HAVE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT, AND

MANY OF US LIVE HERE IN

ROCHESTER AND WE WERE

INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING IT HERE.

IF WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO

SHOW, OF COURSE IT WOULD ALL BE

A MOOT POINT.

>> Elissa: AS WE TALK ABOUT

LINKAGES AND TRANSPORTATION, WE

KNOW IT'S A COMPLEX NETWORK AND

IT BRINGS THE CANALWAY TRAIL

PROJECT TO MIND, WHICH IS ALSO

PART OF THIS REVITALIZATION

PLAN.

IS THAT SIMILAR TO THE SEAWAY

TRAIL, CANALWAY TRAIL?

>> EXCEPT THAT ONE IS A ROAD

TRAIL, SO WE'RE TRYING TO DO TWO

THINGS WITH THAT.

ONE IS THE BIKE TRAIL, THE

PEDESTRIAN TRAIL, BUT ALSO THE

ROAD TO GO ALONGSIDE THAT.

SO, YES, IN MANY RESPECTS IT IS,

BUT IT HAS SOME UNIQUE

PROPERTIES THAT THE SEAWAY TRAIL

DOESN'T, AND NAMELY THAT

PEDESTRIAN USE AND BICYCLE USE

AND THAT KIND OF THING.

>> Elissa: IS THE GOAL, THEN,

TO GET TOURISTS TO TRAVEL THE

WHOLE THING OR IS IT JUST SO

THAT WE KNOW WHERE WE ARE WHEN

WE'RE THERE?

WHAT'S THE IDEA THERE?

>> WELL, I THINK THE GOAL IS TO

ATTRACT VISITORS AND WHETHER OR

NOT THEY VISIT A SINGLE SITE OR

COME AND VISIT OUR WHOLE SYSTEM,

TRAVEL THROUGH BY BOAT OR BY

BIKE.

>> I THINK BOTH.

>> I THINK BOTH.

>> IT'S TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO

COME TO SITE POINTS BUT ALSO

PEOPLE TO SPEND SEVERAL DAYS AND

PERHAPS TAKE EITHER A ROAD TRIP

OR A BOAT TRIP FOR A WEEK

PERHAPS AND JUST VISIT DIFFERENT

AREAS ALONG THE CANAL, BECAUSE

THERE'S SO MUCH TO SEE IN

DIFFERENT AREAS.

YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT ALL IN

ONE SPOT.

>> Elissa: SO YOU'RE FOCUSING

MOSTLY ON A RECREATIONAL ASPECT

TO THIS IN TERMS OF BIKING,

HIKING, THINGS THAT ARE

RELATIVELY ACTIVE?

IS THAT THE IDEA?

>> IT'S THE FOCUS OF THE CANAL

REVITALIZATION PLAN.

ALSO MY OFFICE, PART OF WHAT WE

DO IS MORE OF THE

INFRASTRUCTURE, THE MAINTENANCE

AND KEEPING UP THE STRUCTURES.

THOSE ARE PROJECTS LIKE COURT

STREET DAMS THAT WE'VE BEEN

WORKING ON FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

>> AND TO ME THE BEAUTY OF THE

CANAL, ONE OF THE BEAUTIES OF

THE CANAL, IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST

FOR BOATERS.

IT'S NOT JUST FOR THE FELLOW

WITH THE 50-FOOT YACHT.

THERE'S NO LUXURY ON THE CANAL.

YOU CAN HIKE IT; YOU CAN BIKE

IT; YOU CAN WALK IT; YOU CAN SIT

AND READ A BOOK; YOU CAN PICNIC.

SO IT ADDS TO THE QUALITY OF

LIFE.

IT'S JUST ENORMOUS.

>> Elissa: AND WE'RE GOING TO

TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT

THESE PLANS IN A FEW MINUTES.

FROM A STRUCTURAL PERSPECTIVE,

FROM AN ENGINEER'S PERSPECTIVE,

FROM A MAINTENANCE PERSPECTIVE,

IT MUST BE A LOT EASIER TO DO

HERE IN THE YEAR 2000, THOUGH,

THAN IT HAS BEEN IN YEARS PAST.

DOES TECHNOLOGY HELP YOU IN

THESE EFFORTS TO MAKE THE

WATERWAY BE SOUND?

>> IN SOME RESPECTS, IT DOES,

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, YOU KNOW,

WE'RE STILL USING -- YOU KNOW,

WE'RE STILL USING CONCRETE.

WE'RE STILL USING CLAY.

WE'RE STILL USING MANY OF THE

SAME TECHNIQUES AND, YOU KNOW,

WE'RE AIDED BY MODERN EQUIPMENT.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN -- WE HAVE

BIGGER, MORE MODERN EQUIPMENT

THAT CAN REDUCE SOME OF THE

MANPOWER THAT'S REQUIRED.

>> Elissa: SOME OF THE OLD

TOOLS STILL HOLD ON?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

TIME TRIED.

THE TEST OF TIME.

>> Elissa: TIME-HONORED

MATERIALS.

>> TIME-HONORED MATERIALS, AND

WORKS REALLY WELL.

>> Elissa: ALL RIGHT.

HOLD THOSE THOUGHTS.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT

MORE ABOUT THE FUTURE.

IT TAKES A LOT TO MAKE A

SUCCESSFUL WATERFRONT, A LOT OF

MONEY AND A LOT OF PLANNING, BUT

JUST HOW MUCH?

"NEED TO KNOW'S" JENNIFER REED

WENT TO THE VILLAGE OF PALMYRA

FOR A GROUNDBREAKING CEREMONY

THAT'S ALL ABOUT WATER.

>> Jennifer Reed: IT'S NOT A

COINCIDENCE THE ERIE CANAL WINDS

THROUGH THE BACKGROUND OF

PALMYRA.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE IDEA.

THE VILLAGE ESTABLISHED ITSELF

BACK IN 1827, JUST TWO YEARS

AFTER THE WATERWAY OPENED.

>> WE UTILIZED IT FOR YEARS

AND THEN IT JUST KIND OF DIED

OFF AND FADED AWAY, AND I THINK

IT'S TIME TO REUSE SOME THINGS

THAT HAVE GONE BY THE WAYSIDE.

>> Jennifer: IT HAS NEVER REALLY

GONE BY THE WAYSIDE.

ABOUT 75% OF THE STATE'S

POPULATION STILL LIVE WITHIN TWO

MILES OF NEW YORK'S WATERWAYS,

INCLUDING THE MAN-MADE ERIE

CANAL.

>> WITH THE

PICKS AND SHOVELS AND SWEAT AND

BLOOD OF THOUSANDS OF IMMIGRANT

WORKERS, 363-MILE-LONG

40-FEET-WIDE, FOUR-FEET-DEEP

MIRACLE OF ENGINEERING WAS BORN.

>> Jennifer: THE ERIE CANAL USED

TO BE A SOURCE OF PROSPERITY FOR

SMALL COMMUNITIES LIKE PALMYRA.

NOW, THOSE OFFICIALS SAY, IN

ORDER TO GO FORWARD, THEY NEED

TO GO BACKWARD, BACK TO THE DAYS

OF THE ERIE CANAL.

>> IN ORDER

TO RESTORE OUR HISTORY AND

REINVENT OURSELVES FOR THE 21st

CENTURY, IT HAS TAKEN GREAT

LEADERSHIP AT ALL LEVELS OF

GOVERNMENT IN ORDER TO MAKE THE

ERIE CANAL ONCE AGAIN A VIBRANT

OPPORTUNITY OF OUR FUTURE FOR

TOURISM AND RECREATION AND OF

OUR PAST AND GREAT HISTORY.

>> Jennifer: THE VILLAGE OF

PALMYRA RECEIVED $3-AND-A-HALF

MONEY OF HUD MONEY, PART OF THE

$17.3 MILLION STATE GRANT

AWARDED TO WAYNE COUNTY FOR

CANAL DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES.

>> WELCOME TO THE VILLAGE OF

PALMYRA.

OVER THE NEXT 24 MONTHS, THE

VILLAGE OF PALMYRA WILL UNDERGO

A SIGNIFICANT FACELIFT.

SEVERAL PROJECTS WILL MERGE

TOGETHER, CREATING THIS

REFURBISHED LOOK WHILE KEEPING A

LINK TO OUR HISTORIC PAST.

>> Jennifer: AND THAT LINK WILL

BE SIMILAR TO RECENT FACELIFTS

FOUND IN BOTH PITTSFORD AND

FAIRPORT.

THE COMMUNITIES OFFER BOATERS

THE BASIC AMENITIES: A PLACE TO

DOCK, A PLACE TO FUEL UP, A

PLACE TO EAT, AND FOR BOTH

BOATERS AND LAND LOVERS, A PLACE

TO VISIT.

>> TODAY WE ARE

GATHERED TO CEREMONIOUSLY BREAK

GROUND FOR THE PALMYRA MARINA

AND CANAL STREET PROJECTS.

(Applause)

>> IT IS TRULY A GREAT DAY FOR THE

VILLAGE, A GREAT DAY, MAYOR

WILSON.

CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU AND THE

VILLAGE FORCE FOR YOUR FORESIGHT

IN REACHING BACK INTO THE PAST

TO ENSURE THE DESTINY OF

PALMYRA'S FUTURE.

JUST A FEW FEET AWAY, WE STAND

ON A PORT THAT CAN TAKE US TO

EVERY SINGLE PORT IN THE WORLD.

>> Jennifer: AND VICE VERSA, A

PORT THAT WILL BRING THE WORLD

TO PALMYRA.

IN FACT, DURING THE DAYS OF THE

CANAL'S CONSTRUCTION, PALMYRA

WAS LAYING THE FOUNDATION FOR

SOMETHING ELSE: A NEW RELIGION.

IN 1831, THE CHURCH OF JESUS

CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS WAS

FOUNDED BY JOSEPH SMITH, A

PALMYRA RESIDENT.

NOW PALMYRA IS A PLACE OF

PILGRIMAGE FOR MORMONS, TIME TO

RETRACE THEIR HERITAGE, AND IT'S

A PLACE FOR HISTORY FOR TOURISTS

WANTING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE

MORMONS.

PALMYRA ALREADY DRAWS CLOSE TO

100,000 PEOPLE EACH YEAR, AND

NOW NOT ONLY CAN THEY COME BY

LAND... THEY CAN COME BY WATER,

WHICH WILL MAKE PALMYRA NOT JUST

A VILLAGE BUT A DESTINATION.

>> I THINK

THIS WILL ENABLE PEOPLE TO COME

AND VISIT AND ACTUALLY HAVE A

PLACE TO PARK... (Laughing)

AND ENJOY OUR VILLAGE AND BRING

MORE PEOPLE IN TO -- JUST TO

ENJOY OUR MUSEUMS AND OUR

STORES.

THERE'S LOTS OF WONDERFUL THINGS

TO SEE.

>> I THINK IT'S

TIME WE UTILIZE IT.

>> Jennifer: THE VILLAGE HOPES

THE CANAL DEVELOPMENT WILL NOT

ONLY JUST ATTRACT VISITORS; IT

WILL ATTRACT BUSINESSES AND, IF

NOTHING ELSE, ATTRACT ITS OWN

RESIDENTS.

>> JUST THE

ENHANCEMENT, IMPROVEMENTS, THE

QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN THE

VILLAGE OF PALMYRA.

THERE WILL BE A LITTLE SOMETHING

TO DO ON A SATURDAY AFTERNOON.

>> Elissa: WE'RE BACK WITH OUR

GUESTS ON "NEED TO KNOW," TOM

GRASSO, THE PRESIDENT OF NEW

YORK STATE CANAL SOCIETY AND

WORLD CANAL 2000 LEADER AND

CANAL ENGINEER DAVID MARTIN.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT

PLANS AND THE MARKETING

STRATEGIES THAT ARE GOING ON

RIGHT NOW AROUND THE CANAL.

WE WERE TALKING EARLIER BECAUSE

DAVID WENT FROM WORKING MOSTLY

ON HIGHWAYS TO WORKING NOW ON

WATERWAYS WITH THE CANAL.

IT'S NOT REALLY ALL THAT

NECESSARY TO MARKET A HIGHWAY,

BUT THERE IS A STRATEGY IN PLACE

TO MARKET THE CANAL, AND WE'VE

TALKED ALREADY ABOUT TOURISM,

BUT THERE ARE ALSO OTHER KINDS

OF PROJECTS, CORRECT,

DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS?

WHAT WOULD THAT ENTAIL?

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PUSH

THERE?

>> OUR DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS FOR

THE MOST PART ARE THINGS LIKE

THE ROCHESTER HARBOR PROJECT

HERE THAT WE'RE DOING TO IMPROVE

THE CANAL FRONT FOR THE USER.

WE'VE HAD OTHER PROJECTS IN THE

RECENT PAST.

THE VILLAGE OF PITTSFORD, YOU

SHOWED SOME FOOTAGE THERE.

WE'VE HAD GRANTS, SMALLER TYPE

IMPROVEMENTS TO HELP LOCAL

COMMUNITIES IMPROVE THEIR

WATERFRONT.

>> Elissa: SOME OF THE LOCAL

COMMUNITIES THAT WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT HAVE SLIDING ECONOMIES.

I KNOW OSWEGO AND SYRACUSE AREAS

AND SOME OF THE OTHER PLACES

THAT HAVE BEEN TARGETED.

HOW DO YOU TALK TO A COMMUNITY

WITH A LOT OF WINTER ABOUT THE

FACT THAT TOURISM IS GOING TO BE

SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO REALLY

HELP REVITALIZE THEIR COMMUNITY?

ESPECIALLY IF IT'S LIKE OURS, WE

HAVE MANY THINGS, IMAGING AND

ALL THOSE KIND OF MANUFACTURING

THINGS THAT WE WANT TO ALSO PUSH

FOR ECONOMIC HEALTH.

HOW CAN THIS REALLY COMPARE?

>> WELL, I THINK BECAUSE IT

BRINGS NOT ONLY TOURISM FROM

OUTSIDE THE AREA BUT LOCAL

TOURISM.

I THINK WE TEND TO IGNORE THE

HOMEGROWN TOURISTS, THAT PEOPLE

WILL COME TO THE CANAL DURING

THE SEASON THAT IT'S OPEN AND

ENJOY IT AND DO THE KINDS OF

THINGS, PERHAPS SPEND SOME

MONEY.

BUT ALSO I THINK THAT THE THRUST

WOULD BE TO MAKE IT A

FOUR-SEASON DESTINATION.

UTILIZE IT MORE IN WINTER

PERHAPS IN CERTAIN AREAS WHERE

IT'S AMENABLE TO DO SO, SKATING,

CROSS COUNTRY SKIING, THAT KIND

OF THING.

SO THERE'S MORE PERHAPS WE COULD

DO WITH IT IN THE WINTERTIME TO

HELP MAKE THE TOURIST SEASON A

LITTLE BIT LONGER.

>> Elissa: MOST OF THE

COMMUNITIES THAT WE'VE BEEN

LOOKING AT OVER THE PAST FEW

WEEKS ARE SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES.

WHAT ARE THE PLANS TO BE ABLE TO

BRING THE CANAL TO PEOPLE WHO

LIVE IN THE CITY OR PEOPLE WHO

MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE ABLE TO

GET THERE?

>> WELL, I THINK THE PLAN TO DO

THAT WOULD HAVE TO INVOLVE THEM

GOING TO IT IN SOME WAY, YOU

KNOW.

I MEAN, THE TRAILS ARE EXTENDING

NOW INTO THE CITY, AND SO FROM

HERE YOU COULD GET ON A TRAIL

NEXT TO THE RIVER AND EVENTUALLY

GET TO THE CANAL.

AND NOW IT'S -- BUFFALO'S THE

NEXT STOP, YOU KNOW.

YOU COULD HIKE IT, BIKE IT ALL

THE WAY TO BUFFALO.

YOU CAN GO TO PALMYRA IN THE

OPPOSITE DIRECTION, THE CORN

HILL LANDING, BE ABLE TO GET

BOATERS CLOSER TO DOWNTOWN.

AND THEREFORE THEY COULD USE THE

FACILITIES THERE, RESTAURANTS

AND SO FORTH.

SO I THINK THE STRATEGY IS GOOD

IN THE SENSE THAT GETTING

TRAILS, WALKWAYS INTO THE CITIES

AND VILLAGES, TIE THEM TO THE

CANAL, AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME

REDEVELOP THESE PORTS FOR

TOURISM.

>> Elissa: WE'VE HEARD ABOUT

SOME PROJECTS THAT PLAN TO CUT

INLAND SO THAT THINGS LIKE

HOUSING CAN BE DEVELOPED.

HOW DO YOU ENVISION THAT

HAPPENING, DAVID?

>> THERE IS SOME TALK WE'VE HAD

WITH SOME DEVELOPERS.

THE BASIC CONCEPT IS, IN AN AREA

WHERE THE CANAL IS ABOUT THE

SAME LEVEL AS THE SURROUNDING

TERRAIN, TO BE ABLE TO CUT IN

AND HAVE SOME ACCESS FOR SOME

TYPE OF DOCKING FOR RESIDENTIAL

SUBDIVISION.

>> Elissa: SO PEOPLE WOULD BE

LIVING ON WATERFRONT.

ARE THERE RISKS WITH THAT?

WHEN I THINK OF CUTTING INLAND,

I MEAN, ARE THERE RISKS ABOUT

OVERDEVELOPING THE WATERWAY?

THERE'S ALREADY TALK IN THE

COMMUNITY ABOUT SPRAWL, ABOUT

TOO MUCH DEVELOPMENT.

DO YOU HEAR THAT?

IS THAT A RISK?

>> WELL, I THINK ANY TYPE OF

DEVELOPMENT OF THAT NATURE

REALLY HAS TO BE DONE IN TUNE

WITH THE COMMUNITY AND, YOU

KNOW, WITH THE COMMUNITY'S INPUT

AND SUPPORT.

I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, THE

CANAL CORPORATION DOESN'T INTEND

TO GO INTO COMMUNITIES AND PUSH

DEVELOPMENT IF UNWANTED.

>> OR PAVE IT OVER FROM ONE END

TO THE OTHER.

THERE WILL STILL BE THE PRISTINE

RURAL SORT OF BACKWATER LOOK TO

IT.

I DON'T THINK THE THRUST IS TO

OVERDEVELOP IT.

THOUGHT OUT WISELY AND IN

CERTAIN AREAS THAT IT'S SMART TO

DO THAT KIND OF THING, AND

THAT'S WHERE IT WILL BE DONE.

>> Elissa: HOW IS DEVELOPMENT

ENVIRONMENTALLY MONITORED?

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> WE HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL

ENGINEER ON STAFF IN ALBANY WHO

REVIEWS ALL OF OUR CAPITAL

PROJECTS, ALL OF OUR DEVELOPMENT

PROJECTS, ALL OF OUR MAINTENANCE

PROJECTS.

THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF EXPENSE

IN TESTING AND, YOU KNOW,

ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW THAT'S PUT

FORTH BY THE CORPORATION IN THAT

RESPECT.

>> Elissa: HOW CLOSELY DO YOU

MONITOR DEVELOPMENT IN OTHER

PARTS OF THE STATE, IN THE

OSWEGOS AND THE LITTLE FALLS, I

THINK IS AN AREA IN THE WHITE

HALL.

HOW CLOSELY DO YOU TRY AND WORK

WITH THEM?

DO YOU TRY AND MAKE THE

DEVELOPMENT HERE MATCH WHAT'S

GOING ON THERE, OR DO YOU TRY

AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE

COMMUNITY.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD,

WONDERFUL COMPETITION UP THERE

THAT IF LITTLE FALLS CAN DO

THIS, MAYBE WE CAN DO IT A

LITTLE BETTER, AND THE CANAL

SOCIETY OFFERS OUR ASSISTANCE

ONLY IN TERMS OF INTERPRETATION.

YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU HAVE

HERE, WE CAN HELP, YOU KNOW,

WITH SIGNAGE, WITH INTERPRETING

FOR THE PUBLIC AND EDUCATING THE

PUBLIC AND THAT KIND OF THING.

THAT'S WHERE OUR INVOLVEMENT IS.

BEYOND THAT, IT'S VERY, VERY

LIMITED.

>> WE DO REVIEW SOME THINGS FROM

A STATEWIDE PERSPECTIVE AS FAR

AS SITE AMENITIES AND THAT SORT

OF A THING.

WE DO HAVE SOME STATEWIDE TRAIL

STANDARDS SO THAT A LOT OF THE

CANAL FRONT, EACH VILLAGE, EACH

COMMUNITY MAY PUT A DIFFERENT

FLAVOR ON IT, BUT THERE ARE

STILL SOME CONSISTENCIES

STATEWIDE, AND PEOPLE KNOW IT'S

AN INTERSTATE CANAL FACILITY.

>> Elissa: WHILE WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT TRANSPORTATION, IF THIS

WORKS -- I MEAN, AT WHAT POINT

DO YOU KNOW THAT IT WORKS?

IS THERE A THRESHOLD OR

SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT

IN TERMS OF AMOUNT OF MONEY OR

DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU WANT TO

BRING IN?

AND HOW WILL THAT IMPACT OTHER

THINGS IN THE STATE?

DOES THIS MEAN THERE WON'T BE

ANY THRUWAY TOLLS IF ALL THESE

CANAL PROJECTS WORK IN A GREAT

WAY?

THE GOVERNOR SAID THIS IS THE

NEXT BIG ECONOMIC BOON, THE

CANAL.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW I EXPECT TO

ANSWER THAT ACCURATELY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN

MEASURE, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH

IMPACT IT HAS BECAUSE OF SO MANY

PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESSES AND

SO FORTH.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A

-- SORT OF A THRESHOLD THAT, YOU

KNOW, PEOPLE WILL SAY THIS IS

ENOUGH OR NOT ENOUGH AND WHETHER

IT WILL IMPACT THE TOLLS.

THAT'S A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION

TO ANSWER.

>> Elissa: WHAT ABOUT WAY DOWN

THE LINE NOW?

SENECA FALLS HAS ALREADY PRETTY

MUCH COMPLETED ITS PROJECT.

IS THAT CORRECT?

THEY'VE ROLLED THAT OUT FOR THE

CELEBRATION THEY HAD THERE TWO

YEARS AGO.

WHAT ABOUT DOWN THE LINE DO YOU

SEE FOR THIS REGION?

IN OUR LAST MINUTE, WE'LL GIVE

YOU EACH A LITTLE CHANCE TO GO

AHEAD AND LOOK AT THE FUTURE.

>> I SEE WONDERFUL LITTLE

DEVELOPMENTS IN SOME OF THESE

TOWNS, PEOPLE TURNING -- INSTEAD

OF TURNING THEIR BACK TO THE

WATER, FACING THE WATER, AND

JUST MAKING THEIR LITTLE VILLAGE

VERY ATTRACTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO

COME AND ENJOY.

>> Elissa: AND I'M SORRY TO SAY

THAT WE'RE OUT OF TIME, SO YOU

HAD THE LAST WORD, TOM.

YOU HAD THE LAST WORD, TOM.

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, BOTH FOR

BEING HERE WITH US.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU

THINK ABOUT THE ERIE CANAL OR

OUR NEW YORK STATE CANAL SYSTEM.

JUST LOG ONTO OUR WEB SITE,

wxxi.org, AND CLICK ON

"COMMUNITY."

THERE YOU CAN DISCUSS YOUR

OPINIONS WITH OTHER VIEWERS AND

YOU CAN ALSO READ A TRANSCRIPT

OF THIS PROGRAM, OR YOU CAN ALSO

TELEPHONE OUR VIEWER RESPONSE

LINE AT 716-258-0250 TO LEARN

MORE ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE

ERIE CANAL.

BE SURE TO WATCH WXXI'S

DOCUMENTARY ON THE CANAL AND

WHAT IT HAS MEANT FOR OUR AREA.

IT IS ON SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 9th

AT 8 AND SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 10th

AT SIX.

AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK'S

EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW."

THANKS FOR JOINING US.